//Trail Status mouse over Java // I am curious about something

Author Topic: I am curious about something  (Read 18734 times)

Shark

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Re: I am curious about something
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2012, 05:13:17 PM »
Wonder if there is an easy way to do it in multiple rides ? I have almost all of valley branch.
Fat is where it's at!......Tires that is.
Moved to Idaho....:) Now I actually *mountain* bike.

gnawbonelefty

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Re: I am curious about something
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2012, 05:20:16 PM »
I think if you have the kml files I've got some software to stitch them together.

.r

gt ss

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Re:
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2012, 07:18:14 PM »
     I am curious about something too. Why do so many work themselves to a near ulcer worrying about things like some ruts on a MOUNTAIN BIKE trail when they have no control over it. I mean, the people that frequent this board are not likely to even want to ride on a muddy trail, let alone do it for fear of alienation from their peers.
     It's those that are new to the sport that don't know better and those who are just messing around out there that don't care. And why should they care. Aren't we riding all terrain bikes? We as riders can't expect to ride on a perfectly smooth and dry surface every time we venture into the woods, that's what paved rails to trails and roads are for.
     How is it places like Gnaw Bone, Valley Branch Retreat, Knobstone Trail, yadda, yadda, yadda, can get by without having all the puddles nicked and be great this time of year? I know " They don't get all the traffic and the leaves are covering the tread". These trails were built old school, up and down fall lines etc... and as many on this thread have said are still great this time of year.
     Tell me, what would happen if these rutted areas were left alone? Would they smooth out with tires eventually? Would they develop into a deep abyss? Would they get wider? If they get wider, what would happen? Would they eventually end up looking like a horse trail?( If that's the case, we definitely don't want that.)
     Don't misunderstand me, I have nicked a few puddles to help out the local trail. I just don't understand working up a lather over something like mud puddles when there are starving people without clothing and shelter.
    * IMO


Just when my karma was on an upward trend  :o
« Last Edit: January 12, 2012, 07:21:55 PM by gt ss »

Unfit Nitwit

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Re: I am curious about something
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2012, 09:33:00 PM »
gt ss

Maybe the BCSP trails are under a microscope by people who would love for us to lose access to the trails, among other reasons. I have talked more than once to people who want bikes off the trails there.
I will ride BCSP when there are mud puddles, and the trail is a bit splashy but firm.
More put off by those who remove rocks built into the trail rather than make a rogue bypass, or (as a stretch) possibly see if a bypass can be added by the trail builders.

Soil composition and the age of the trails may have something to do with conditions at different trails.
Popping the puddles so they drain is a step to making the trail open more of the time.
How the soil reacts to freeze/ thaw, I don't think anyone do much about. Aside from riding early, or later in the day.

If I recall, both Valley Branch and Gnaw Bone had rain wash ruts on some of the fall line parts of the trail.
Have not ridden either in about 6 years, but I am sure both had hills with ruts. As did Nebo Ridge (which also had horses on it). Valley branch had a deep rut (trench) from a motorcycle race they used to have on one hill.

Some sections could easily end up like a bad horse trail.
Town Run had a section go from single track to wide enough for a car due to people edging around a rutted puddle. It just kept getting wider.
Even experienced riders will tell you they are smart enough not to damage the trail in marginal conditions, as they "know to ride AROUND the puddles". I have heard it a few times when out doing trail work, and have read it here in the HMBA forums.

Ed




Randy Witte

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Re: I am curious about something
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2012, 09:16:07 AM »
Speaking of Gnaw Bone maps...here's a blast from the past...anyone else remember when they had the maps printed on cloth bandanas?  So you could take it out there, take it out over and over, sweat all over it, and not have it return to pulp on you.  I think maybe Fett had one.  And Freddie always had one when I rode out there with him.  I really have no idea the whole story on those...just reminiscing a little on a Friday morning.

Fett

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Re: I am curious about something
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2012, 09:30:59 AM »
I wish I had one. That would be cool although I don't get lost very often at Gnaw Bone anymore. I do, on occasion, have temporary navigational irregularities at Valley Branch though.
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Patrick Weller

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Re: I am curious about something
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2012, 09:42:46 PM »
How about a mud park?  Or dedicate one trail to all-conditions riding.  Don't hit me. 

Shark

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Re: I am curious about something
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2012, 10:15:37 PM »
How about a mud park?  Or dedicate one trail to all-conditions riding.  Don't hit me.

Go race cyclocross. Problem solved. ;D
Fat is where it's at!......Tires that is.
Moved to Idaho....:) Now I actually *mountain* bike.

Fett

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Re: I am curious about something
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2012, 09:12:53 AM »
How about a mud park?  Or dedicate one trail to all-conditions riding.  Don't hit me.

You can go ride Redbird State Recreation Area. It is the offroad park down in Southern Indiana for motorcycles and ATVs. I believe bicycles are allowed and you can mud it up to your hearts content.  www.redbirdsra.com
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Patrick Weller

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Re: I am curious about something
« Reply #24 on: January 15, 2012, 09:39:33 AM »
You can go ride Redbird State Recreation Area. It is the offroad park down in Southern Indiana for motorcycles and ATVs. I believe bicycles are allowed and you can mud it up to your hearts content.  www.redbirdsra.com

Thanks Fett!  I'll check that out. I'm no racer and would not fit in with the cross scene.  ::)   :-X
 
I've also heard folks say that Hickory Ridge and Nebo are better when BC is muddy.  I believe these trails are open to horses, and most are pulverized from hoof traffic already.

Paul_Arlinghaus

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Re: I am curious about something
« Reply #25 on: January 15, 2012, 09:49:18 AM »
While Nebo is technically open to horses, it doesn't get much horse traffic.  It is not well connected to other horse trails and hard to horse trailer at its parking lots.  So it does have a much better tread for mountain biking than the rest of Hickory.  So please try to help keep it that way and avoid it when it is too muddy.  Do to less traffic, it may at times be ok when BCSP is too soft. 

But the rest of Hickory is fair game.  Much of it is armored with gravel to support the horse traffic, and since horses use it rain or shine, mountain biking in muddy conditions isn't going to degrade the trails.

If the trails get too bad the gravel road in Hickory are another option, and they plenty challenging (climbing) and fun (descending).
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Shark

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Re:
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2012, 06:02:35 PM »
     I am curious about something too. Why do so many work themselves to a near ulcer worrying about things like some ruts on a MOUNTAIN BIKE trail when they have no control over it. I mean, the people that frequent this board are not likely to even want to ride on a muddy trail, let alone do it for fear of alienation from their peers.
     It's those that are new to the sport that don't know better and those who are just messing around out there that don't care. And why should they care. Aren't we riding all terrain bikes? We as riders can't expect to ride on a perfectly smooth and dry surface every time we venture into the woods, that's what paved rails to trails and roads are for.
     How is it places like Gnaw Bone, Valley Branch Retreat, Knobstone Trail, yadda, yadda, yadda, can get by without having all the puddles nicked and be great this time of year? I know " They don't get all the traffic and the leaves are covering the tread". These trails were built old school, up and down fall lines etc... and as many on this thread have said are still great this time of year.
     Tell me, what would happen if these rutted areas were left alone? Would they smooth out with tires eventually? Would they develop into a deep abyss? Would they get wider? If they get wider, what would happen? Would they eventually end up looking like a horse trail?( If that's the case, we definitely don't want that.)
     Don't misunderstand me, I have nicked a few puddles to help out the local trail. I just don't understand working up a lather over something like mud puddles when there are starving people without clothing and shelter.
    * IMO


Just when my karma was on an upward trend  :o


Yes we are riding "all terrain bikes" but that does not mean it's OK to mess up trails that HMBA members and other MTB'rs work so hard to build.


Think of it this way, compared to hikers & horse riders, we are the "new guys" on the block. It makes everyone look bad when there are bikes coming off State Park trails that have 2" of mud everywhere. It promotes the misinformation that bikes hurt the environment.

That just gives more reason for anti-bike folks to try & limit our access that HMBA/IMBA/local clubs has worked so hard to get us.

It is true, all the times that BCSP is too wet to ride, VBR & GBC have been fantastic. Many places have +4" of leaves & very few riders, trails stay solid.

PS...
karma usually goes up if you try to be helpful & nice.  ;)
Fat is where it's at!......Tires that is.
Moved to Idaho....:) Now I actually *mountain* bike.

Paul_Arlinghaus

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Re: I am curious about something
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2012, 06:33:20 PM »

Quote
  Tell me, what would happen if these rutted areas were left alone? Would they smooth out with tires eventually? Would they develop into a deep abyss? Would they get wider? If they get wider, what would happen? Would they eventually end up looking like a horse trail?( If that's the case, we definitely don't want that.)



Even a few ruts hold water.  That means that area will remain wet longer after a rain.  Then the next time it rains, and 99% of the trail is dry, that spot will be wet.  So Riders will rider because 99% of the trail is dry.  That will displace even more dirt in those low spots.  This makes them hold more water longer.  Because the ground is compacted, the water can't seep into the ground, so these spots can hold water for days. 

BCSP is well built and mostly bench cut, so the trails typically don't get made wider like what we used to see at Town Run.



But what does happen is that that bottoms of grade reversals loss their ability to drain, leaving a muddy spot at the bottom of turns.  This ruins the flow of the trail, as there are too many slick turns to fully enjoy the flow. 

It may appear that the damage from riding in bad conditions doesn't leave lasting damage.  It's the regular maintenance we do that counters the trail damage.  If we stopped doing maintenance and everyone rode when ever they wanted, the trails would be come less and less fun to ride.

Sure, we have lots of new riders each year and only a small percentage reads the forum.  So its up to mountain bikers to spread the word and apply peer pressure.  Keeping the trails fun to ride is a balance between the volunteers we have vs. the damage done to the trails.  If the damage gets out of hand, our volunteers wouldn't be able to keep up. 

The less maintenance we have to do, means more time to build new trails!





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gt ss

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Re:
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2012, 08:57:49 PM »

PS...
karma usually goes up if you try to be helpful & nice.  ;)

Really? I re-read my post and didn't see anything unhelpful or mean.

I don't care about the Karma, I'm a presbyterian.

TimBarnes

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Re: I am curious about something
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2012, 10:18:09 AM »
I dated Karma back in high school and yes, she can be a bitch sometimes.  That's why I try to build up credit with her by working on the trails.  I crash anyway...
Happy Trails!!!

Tim Barnes

 

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