//Trail Status mouse over Java // HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit

Author Topic: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit  (Read 35095 times)

tomc

  • **
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #45 on: September 26, 2015, 09:36:13 PM »
So my 12 year old has been introduced to mountain biking recently and I can see it becoming more of a thing as he has just joined an afterschool mtb club. We've been a few times now and he's in the process of getting used to biking on trails.


 Really though, my question is does anyone know if kids will have to pay for an off-road pass as well? He will be 13 next year.


We can always use other trails but the fees next year are going up enough that I don't know that I would pay for another pass for limited use. I didn't see anything concerning ages. 

Otter

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 300
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2015, 07:43:53 AM »
Right now, yes that is the case tomc, he would have to pay as well.  That's been one of my main rubs with this fee, there's no relief / amnesty for youth like there is for say fishing licenses.  HMBA lobbied for this, but unsuccessfully thus far.  The one "bright spot" is that beginner trails are exempt from the fee, so some of the trails can still be ridden without paying.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2015, 09:35:13 AM by Otter »

Paul_Arlinghaus

  • Paul Arlinghaus
  • Global Moderator
  • Should be riding....
  • *****
  • Posts: 3011
  • Follow me to the next work session at Town Run
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2015, 09:30:07 AM »
Otter is correct, kids are required to have a permit.  But all riders can ride beginner trails for free.

We currently live in a political climate where everyone wants to pass the buck.  The State wants user fees to pay for State Parks, so they charge more fees.  They feel that it is the role of local parks to provide free recreation.  Local parks (in most of Indiana) are under funded as well.  So while they are free, they really don't provide the quality or quantity of trails the public needs.

Until the mountain bike community really gets engaged in the political process there is very little HMBA can do, other than work with the cards our parks are dealt. 

We need for politicians to here about our Parks and mountain biking during the election process.

The next big election is coming up for those in Indianapolis on Nov 3rd.  If you live in Indianapolis and want better parks and more mountain biking, you need to be engaged in the political process.  Just voting isn't enough. 

Step 1: Find out which City District you are in. 
Step 2: Find out who the candidates are in your District
Step 3: Contact them Now! 
             -  E Mail them asking about parks and mountain biking
             -  Or even better, find out when they are having a public event                   and go talk to them.

We have to make them earn our votes!  Until politicians believe Parks can influence elections, we are going to continue to Struggle.

Indy Parks ranks 73th out of the Top 75 Cities on the Trust for Public Lands 2015 Parkscore.

Indianapolis ranks last out of the top 50 US Cities in Health (http://americanfitnessindex.org/)

  • Please ask your City Council candidates how we can improve our Cities Health and Fitness without improving our parks.
  • Please ask them how we can attract young professionals if we can provide them with recreation opportunities.
  • Talk to them about the challenges you have as parent finding recreation opportunities for your family.
Here is that you can used to find your district and who is running in your district.


http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Council/Councillors/Pages/map.aspx

http://ballotpedia.org/Indianapolis,_Indiana_municipal_elections,_2015

I realize the thread was about State DNR permits, but the immediate need for action is at the City Level in Indianapolis.  We will need to repeat this effort at the State Level when our State Legislators are up for election.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2015, 09:33:15 PM by Steve King »
HMBA: Director of Trail Development / Secretary

tomc

  • **
  • Posts: 93
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2015, 09:41:19 PM »
Good thoughts there. I'm not sure how to go about being an advocate for more mountain biking but that's a start. I don't know where the space is to even expand mountain biking in Indianapolis but perhaps there are places. But in the meantime I bet those up for election just simply don't hear about this issue enough to warrant actually invoking changes to allow for more rec opportunities such as mountain biking. All I know is that for those of us that do it, the few miles of singletrack locally just isn't enough. 


Also, I'm a little confused what/who designates beginner trails? Does this mean he could ride at Ft Ben and ride the Camp Glenn loop but not other ones? He could ride some of the trails at Brown County or Versailles but not others? Any idea how that stuff will be managed, much less enforced?  I guess we'll see soon enough. 

mtbikernate

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 648
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #49 on: October 03, 2015, 06:45:12 PM »
Enforcement is still unclear on it. Basically, if the sign says "beginner" or"easy" then no fee will be required. If it says anything else then the trail permit will apply.

I am not entirely sure if the DNR has really run through the implications of this. Frankly I have never seen a DNR staffer actually on the trails. Rarely anywhere near a trailhead. And never outside a vehicle talking to riders.

As for Indy, Eagle Creek is the major goal. It is a big park with some space for mtb without taking away from anything else already there. There has been a lot of resistance over the years. Making it a priority in the city council is a next step.

Willyjaybob

  • **
  • Posts: 181
  • Go ride!
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2015, 11:14:31 PM »
Enforcement is still unclear on it. Basically, if the sign says "beginner" or"easy" then no fee will be required. If it says anything else then the trail permit will apply.

I am not entirely sure if the DNR has really run through the implications of this. Frankly I have never seen a DNR staffer actually on the trails. Rarely anywhere near a trailhead. And never outside a vehicle talking to riders.

As for Indy, Eagle Creek is the major goal. It is a big park with some space for mtb without taking away from anything else already there. There has been a lot of resistance over the years. Making it a priority in the city council is a next step.

Eagle Creek would be a HUGE win for Indy area riders...
Willyjaybob
IMBA/HMBA Member

"It's your direction, not your intention, that determines your destination."

Mahk

  • HMBA-IMBA Member
  • Should be riding....
  • *
  • Posts: 210
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #51 on: November 30, 2015, 07:45:00 AM »
I purchased my 2016 park pass over the weekend, at BCSP. 

$50 gate fee

$20 off road cycling permit, not needed when you enter,  but must be carried while riding on any trail except for beginner trails, which require no permit.  The trail permit will be enforced by CO's (Conservation Officers) who may be out at trail heads or on the trails, although it was not stated whether they will be walking or riding. 

There is a very helpful handout available at the gate which explains where each pass is required, and what the fees support. 

The gate attendant was very friendly, but  initially stated some inaccurate information, then cheerfully admitted to having only perused the handout and asked if I would read it and report back to him what it said.  If you have questions ask for the handout. 
CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNERâ„¢ professional.  
More info: www.facebook.com/MarkAdamsCFP/

plapham

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #52 on: November 30, 2015, 09:51:21 AM »
Really, I have to carry the bike permit with me while I ride?  Hope it is at least durable enough to withstand blood, sweat, and tears? 
Lap

Raleighguy29

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 543
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2015, 12:03:34 PM »

Really, I have to carry the bike permit with me while I ride?  Hope it is at least durable enough to withstand blood, sweat, and tears?
when you ride Nebo or hickory you have to carry your pass with you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tubes we don't need no stinking tubes!!

Kirk Hilton

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 247
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2015, 05:41:44 PM »
Sounds like blatant discrimination to me, on off road fees.  Why not raise park entrance fees, so the cost get passed on to all park users?  Are horses paying more?  Trail runners/hikers? 

Is this more an off road license?  Do we now have to put plates/permit on bikes?

Like any government it will not be used for trails but goes into some slush fund, to pay for some gov need.  Can I say new mid field terminal at the airport?   

Fett

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 1408
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #55 on: December 01, 2015, 09:50:41 AM »
Kirk,
You may have taken this past any reasonable conclusion. Equestrians have had to purchase a trail user fee for years. Our fee is no more than theirs. It is not discrimination, it is simply DNR trying to remain financially able to maintain park services, when their budgets keep getting cut.
 It is a pass. Same as you have had to get for years in Hoosier National and just carry on your person. $20/yr for use of hundreds of miles of trail is still a huge bargain. It is less than one night at the movies or mediocre meal at a chain restaurant. It is the same cost as doing 4 rides at Valley Branch and you have the entire state for the entire year.
DNR owns the properties and has the leverage to charge for it. We tried to get the funds raised to go directly to a trail fund, but DNR did not agree. One thing that may have occurred is that having a trail fee may may give HMBA increased leverage to gain access to other places as there is now a measurable way to tell the number of users using the trail, which is something that just raising gate fees will not do.
I agree that I would rather not have the fee, but if the laws of supply and demand dictate that people still view it as bargain and ride the trails, then it is a good decision for the long term viability of having great mountain bike trails on DNR properties.
Need a home mortgage?  Let me help.   Click here for more info: www.ruoff.com/jefffetterer

Kirk Hilton

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 247
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #56 on: December 01, 2015, 07:15:15 PM »
Jeff
My point is public land belongs to us.  We paid for it in taxes.  The government then dictates how we are allowed to use our land.  We ask/lobby to use our land, we build the trails and maintain them, then the government sees a cash cow and says I want some of that.

Look at all the taxes we pay that we are not even aware of.  What does it cost the park/forest for us to ride?  Nothing.  We use to ride in vacant lots, poach anything off road looked interesting. 
I think CO's have allot better things to do then chase bicycles down to give them tickets.     Looking allot like the Left Coast.  Are bells next.

Paul_Arlinghaus

  • Paul Arlinghaus
  • Global Moderator
  • Should be riding....
  • *****
  • Posts: 3011
  • Follow me to the next work session at Town Run
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2015, 08:13:29 PM »
Kirk,


It really is up to our elected officials what services our government should provide out of the tax base vs. fees.  I hope that you are taking the time to let your elected officials know that you expect recreation to be provided out of the tax base. 
HMBA: Director of Trail Development / Secretary

RT

  • HMBA-IMBA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 105
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #58 on: January 11, 2016, 11:27:19 PM »
I'm torn on this issue.  I agree with Kirk.  We all pay taxes to have the state parks + we pay a gate fee to enter or a season pass(which I just purchased this past weekend).  That should more than pay for the costs to maintain our park system.  Although I agree that the addition fee would be easy to just pay and move on I find myself really disgusted by it.  First off HMBA built the trails with A LOT of volunteer hours.  How much additional $ have these trails brought to the parks since they were built?  Helluva lot!  I never ever bought an annual park pass until the trails were introduced in the parks.  They cost nothing....ABSOLUTELY nothing to maintain and the maintenance that is required is done by HMBA members for free!!  Blows me away!  Personally I feel like I've been slapped or punched in the face with the amount of hours I have put in building trail for free(which is minimal compared to Paul A, Mike H, and a whole slew of other guys) and now I'm expected to pay to play and trail runners can use our trails for free.....bs!    I feel as well that the additional fees might actually hurt the mtb advocacy part of things.  We want more people in the sport not less.  Sadly it looks like we are caught holding the bag!             
« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 11:33:06 PM by RT »

SurlyWill

  • Training wheels on
  • *
  • Posts: 29
    • View Profile
Re: HMBA Alert: Increased Fees and Off Road Cycling Permit
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2017, 04:42:37 PM »
With as many hikers as I see on ORC trails at Fort Harrison ... it makes me wonder if ANYONE on the ORC trail should have the ORC pass ... even hikers.  It might steer them back towards the hiking paths.

 

Important Links

Join HMBA

 

Calendar

 

Trail Guide

 

Links