New mtb fee

[marthur]

And what a diverse group we are.  Thanks for adding that Paul, the more communication the better.  I'm personally not against the permits, I see it no different than a hunting or fishing license.  I just hope some funds finds its way back to the trails.  BTW you guys do a great job on the trails.

[firefighter56]

Paul, your explanation really shows the root of the issue we have at hand.  After being better educated on the matter I am coming around to (dare I say) support the MTB annual pass.  Initially I was very against it and upset that we have yet another fee to pay at the parks.  IF buying a $20 ($60 for me and my boys) pass will help keep my taxes from going up or possibly even lower them then I'm in.  I just hope this isn't another ploy to soak us for even more money with no reciprocity.


I have attempted to buy a pass already this year.  I went with a group of other riders to O'Bannon Woods last weekend and when we entered the park I tried to buy one.  The girl told me she couldn't get logged onto the computer so she couldn't sell me one.  I then asked "Don't I need one to ride?" and she answered that last Saturday was free state parks day and there were no user fees that day.  I will buy one when I ride in another State Park.


I do have a question, are the work for passes hours only applicable to hours done in State Parks or are they hours of work on any HMBA built and maintained trails?  I've been told both ways.

[dprimm]

Perhaps this is a better question for the racing forum, but how does the fee impact races?  Are the racers expected to still have the pass?  Does the host organization provide them?  Or is that an exemption? 


I am NOT trying to put gasoline on the coals.  Just a thought I have wondered about for a while. 

[RDF73Charger]

Just wanted to add to this thread I think all Indiana libraries have gotten two
Indiana park passes each that can be checked out.
If you are only going to hit the parks a couple of times this would save you some money.
Check with your local library.

[Paul_Arlinghaus]

Perhaps this is a better question for the racing forum, but how does the fee impact races?  Are the racers expected to still have the pass?  Does the host organization provide them?  Or is that an exemption? 


I am NOT trying to put gasoline on the coals.  Just a thought I have wondered about for a while.

Our understanding was that riders are supposed to have a permit for races and special events.

[SSIndyRider]

So here's a problem with the permit system. This morning I dutifully bought an annual permit at BCSP for $20. They told me I need to keep with with me while riding. Ok, where? I have 1 option - jersey pockets. While on the trails, I lost it from my pocket, either when I went over the bars on Bobcat once, or when I had to take out my phone at time a two. I was directed to go to the office about the lost pass. I took in my receipt from purchase 3 hours earlier and was told, "sorry, no refunds or replacement for lost passes". So apparently, I'm supposed to shuck out another $20 tax to be able to ride the trails, despite having already paid (yes, I said 'tax' - that's what user fees are, another word for a tax but only imposed on a specific group). Yes, this is 'constructive' - even though it's critical of the system and not a positive post about it, it doesn't make it 'non-constructive'.

[jasonhilt]

Write to you representative and tell them how you feel about the fee, in a constructive but firm way.  The only way we will get rid of this fee is to have our representatives know how we all feel about it and how unfair it is to single out one user group that overall sees no benefit from it.

[Paul_Arlinghaus]

Please remember that as a State Agency, State Parks are dependent on tax revenues to operate.  These funds could come from sales tax, gas tax, income tax, property tax, or fee based taxes like gate fees and permits, etc....

So if you want to mountain bike without a mtb tax (permit), be prepared to justify why other taxes should be used to fund parks.

Our Indiana and Indianapolis legislators/governor/city councilors don't feel that the average out of shape Hoosier should have to pay for parks.  It should come at no surprise that Indianapolis ranks 50th out of the largest 50 cities in the USA for health and fitness. 

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2015/05/19/indianapolis-lags--fitness-among-top-50-us-cities/27570943/

and that Indiana as a State ranks 41st of 50 States

http://www.americashealthrankings.org/IN

Rather than than just complaining that the permit is unfair, please let your legislator know that health and fitness is important to you and to the State.  That user fees for Parks, especially if excessive, deter the average person or family form recreating and in turn this drives up our health care costs and decreases our tourism incomes. 

Rather than just complain that the mtb permit is unfair, please ask your legislator/city councilor to fund City and State Parks.  Indy Park and our State Parks relieve much less from the general tax base than most States.   

This is the time to reach out to candidates who are up for election.  Make them work for your vote!

[Traci]

So, are you saying that even when you presented your receipt, they would not replace the lost pass?
I would think they would record it electronically so if this happened they could re-print a pass for you? Even if there was a extra $ involved, but to buy a brand new one is dumb as ever. I am sure sorry that you had this issue, and understand your frustration with it.

[JCampbell]

I think the problem is there is nothing preventing an individual from selling their pass and then going back to claim another, and another, etc.   Ski areas get around this by using the pass holders photo on the pass, but I don't see Indiana investing in the cameras and printers needed to do this.

[Traci]

True, I guess I never thought about that. Sad that people would possibly even think about doing that.

[SSIndyRider]

I think the problem is there is nothing preventing an individual from selling their pass and then going back to claim another, and another, etc.   Ski areas get around this by using the pass holders photo on the pass, but I don't see Indiana investing in the cameras and printers needed to do this.

Yes, I understand this possibility, however it's pretty unlikely in 3 hours' time, which I immediately tried to replace it then, rather than later.


Paul, I realize that legislators and DNR leaders are responsible for the permit, but I also thought that HMBA actually conversed with DNR on this topic and would be interested in feedback based on experience, both positive and negative.

[djkouza]

Yes, I understand this possibility, however it's pretty unlikely in 3 hours' time, which I immediately tried to replace it then, rather than later.

I understand the logic here.  But also think the reverse if you wanted to get a buy one get one by cheating saying you lost your card on your ride is the perfect time to do it.  I'd grab a saddle bag for like $10-15 and throw the card in there to ensure it doesn't get lost.  I keep mine in my hydration pack.

[bboehman]

So, dumb question here, how much will it cost to enter Sunday for the DINO race?  Sounds like way more than the $7 for a one time ride?  I don't make it down enough right now with little ones for a year pass so is there an extra daily fee?

[djkouza]

So, dumb question here, how much will it cost to enter Sunday for the DINO race?  Sounds like way more than the $7 for a one time ride?  I don't make it down enough right now with little ones for a year pass so is there an extra daily fee?

$5 for a Daily pass.  And I'm pretty sure they are needed for the race, couldn't find the thread but thought I read that somewhere.  $20/yr  or $5/day