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Author Topic: New mtb fee  (Read 20432 times)

bruce180vf

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Re: New mtb fee
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2015, 11:44:42 AM »
Years ago the INDR came to the Indiana Bass Fishing folks and said "hey we see how much money you are taking in and paying back out and we want to take our fair share out of it. " They tried to take a percentage of overall funds that were collected and also charge a $400 per tournament fee for any fishing tournaments over 25 boats. When it was all said and done they got there fair share but they enacted a lake user fee tag for everyone that uses a DNR controlled lake. $20 a year.
The leaders of the fishing organizations pointed out that all of the pleasure boaters and the boats moored all over the state never payed to use the lakes. They counted the boats and found out that tournaments would generate about $100,000 dollars and year but all of the lake users were in the 7 figures. The DNR is quick to try and dictate what users will have to pay. I am sure the people that showed up at the meetings did everything they could to curtail the fee.
Thanks Paul for your efforts
Maybe there is another way the DNR can raise money besides targeting specific users like they do. Here is where a good idea can save everyone money. We just haven't found it yet.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2015, 06:48:19 PM by bruce180vf »

RIC0

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Re: New mtb fee
« Reply #16 on: December 30, 2015, 03:06:35 PM »
Wheres a list showing every trail in the state that requires a pass???  Pretty sure this is the million dollar question.
Doin the possum trot

tomc

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Re: New mtb fee
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2015, 03:39:40 PM »
If it's run by Indiana DNR then you'll need a pass. Pretty much State parks and Forests. But venture into Hoosier National and you'll need a completely different pass. Yea!


I'd much rather just see them raise entrance fees to help cover their costs, ... but oh yeah, they did that too didn't they? I'm with some of the other folks here. If some of this was being put back into the very things they are charging for then I could at least understand it better. But they want the cake and eat it too. They will charge for use of the trails (but only for mountain bikers) but expect volunteers do all the work to maintain and repair. But goody goody, if you spend a mere 125 hours working on trails they will cover the $20 for the next years pass. 125 HOURS!


 Does anyone know of another state that has adopted this pay to play fee schedule? I can certainly see how this might just come back to bite them in the ass by actually reducing the amount of entrance fees for out-of-state bikers who just pass on coming here. Wonder if there is anyway to demonstrate the potential reduction in revenue because of this over the next year?   



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RIC0

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Re: New mtb fee
« Reply #18 on: December 30, 2015, 03:41:40 PM »
Finally found some info...  I dont agree with it but will pay the $20 an ride.


WHAT PROPERTIES HAVE MOUNTAIN BIKE TRAILS? [/font][/color][/font][/color][/size]
    • Brown County State Park
    • Fort Harrison State Park 
    • Harmonie State Park
    • O’Bannon Woods State Park
    • Potato Creek State Park (all trails beginner level, no permit required)
    • Spring Mill State Park
    • Versailles State Park
    • Salamonie Lake
    • Interlake State Recreation Area
    • Redbird State Recreation Area
    • Clark State Forest
    • Covered Bridge State Forest
    • Deam Lake State Recreation Area
    • Ferdinand State Forest
    • Jackson-Washington State Forest
    • Martin State Forest
    • Owen-Putman State Forest
    • Starve Hollow State Recreation Area
    Doin the possum trot

    bruce180vf

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    Re: New mtb fee
    « Reply #19 on: December 30, 2015, 06:51:20 PM »
    If you look at our neighboring states mountain bike forums there are already people stating they will not come to ride in Indiana anymore. It will be an impact on the locals for sure all over the state.

    plapham

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    Re: New mtb fee
    « Reply #20 on: December 31, 2015, 09:21:27 AM »
    Someone needs to look at the DNR and figure out why they can't operate within a budget (typical of govt but not the people).  Unfortunately this oversight does not exist? And yes Fett, I can afford and will pay the fee  ;)
    Lap

    firefighter56

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    Re: New mtb fee
    « Reply #21 on: December 31, 2015, 10:03:01 AM »
    I wonder if they would get the message if HMBA told them that they would have to maintain and build their own trails or pay the HMBA for their efforts in the park?  If they are telling us that nothing is free then we should tell them the same, especially since they are making money from the HMBA efforts.  I do understand the fragile situation that HMBA is in since it stands to lose a large amount of money if the DNR says no more access for the Brown County Epic, which brings up my next point.


    There has to be other areas outside State Parks available for building trails.  I do understand that it is a long term solution but to keep mountain biking alive and growing in Indiana I think we should be looking for other options.  If the HMBA builds other trails then there should be a binding contract at the start stating either the trails are open to the public for no charge or a fee schedule is set that both parties can agree on so that this doesn't happen again in the future.  I would think that any municipality would be interested in doing something similar to what Anderson has done with Rangeline Nature Preserve.  It wouldn't have to be as elaborate as Rangeline is as far as all of the man made features, it could be as simple as most other trails are with only bridges in select areas.  I say simple as a relative term, I know there is nothing simple about building a trail.  Fishers has a nice little area to play but that area is pretty limited since there is no real mileage to the trail and no more area to add mileage, it is billed as more of a mountain bike park instead of a trail.  Indy has a couple of very nice trails with Town Run and Southwest Way.  Westwood is nice but again charges a fee to ride, but they do at least offer some trail maintenance and the fees are half of what the DNR is charging.


    One more thing that just adds fuel to this fire is that Indianapolis Public Library has bought several State Park entrance passes and those passes can be checked out to allow free access to anyone who has a library card.  The article didn't mention any mountain bike passes being available though. 


    For me its not a matter of whether or not I can afford the fees.  I too have been blessed with an excellent job and my wife makes more money than I do so the money is not the entire issue.  It is all of the fees combined along with the fact that the DNR got something for free and now want to charge the very people who gave them the gift to use it.  This is morally wrong, but who in government has morals anyway.  I will be going other places to ride, kayak, camp and spend my time and money.  The DNR has lost the several hundred dollars annually that I used to spend there by trying to soak even more money from me.

    davebik

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    Re: New mtb fee
    « Reply #22 on: December 31, 2015, 10:39:07 AM »
    anyone know how this mtb pass is going to be checked?  will they check it at the gate if you have a bike on your car, and will they ask for everyone in the vehicle to show a pass?

    sorry if this info was posted somewhere and I missed it.

    RIC0

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    Re: New mtb fee
    « Reply #23 on: December 31, 2015, 10:52:48 AM »
    anyone know how this mtb pass is going to be checked?  will they check it at the gate if you have a bike on your car, and will they ask for everyone in the vehicle to show a pass?

    sorry if this info was posted somewhere and I missed it.

    Good question, sometimes I ride with a camelback sometimes water bottle only.  I'm sure I'll forget my pass more than have it.  I don't see this getting heavily enforced and it's shame greed has to do this to the biking community.
    Doin the possum trot

    firefighter56

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    Re: New mtb fee
    « Reply #24 on: December 31, 2015, 11:05:50 AM »
    They are supposed to check at the gate and they will be spot checking on the trails.  I would assume if a DNR employee sees you on the trail he can ask to see your pass.  If you are planning to ride the trails you should keep it with you to avoid even further fines for riding the trails. 

    gmcttr

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    Re: New mtb fee
    « Reply #25 on: December 31, 2015, 11:09:46 AM »
    Checking for a pass at the gate will do no good....'I'm just going to ride on the roads', so checking at trailheads and on trail are the only possibilities and will have to happen very rarely or the costs will be more than the fee income. As I've previously stated, only the honest riders will pay the fee, disproportionately effecting HMBA/IMBA members.

    I'd be pleasantly surprised if the gate attendants even inform those coming in with bikes that a permit is required.

    I'm wondering what the "penalty" for being caught off road without a permit will be. I'm assuming a "slap on the wrist" is all....so little income will be gained from the uncaring masses. 

    bruce180vf

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    Re: New mtb fee
    « Reply #26 on: December 31, 2015, 03:15:04 PM »
    I asked the gentleman at the gate and he said that Conservation officers will be policing the trail passes. Even at $20 a pass it is still cheaper than a round of golf so I will gladly pay it if that is what it takes to keep the parks open. If I was traveling a great distance and were only able to ride there once or twice a year it may make a difference. To many I am afraid it will.

    Kirk Hilton

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    Re: New mtb fee
    « Reply #27 on: December 31, 2015, 06:37:12 PM »
    I personally can afford to pay the increased costs (yes many costs are increased besides the new off-road permit).  But I have a good job and no kids. 

    Interesting comment by our HMBA president. 

    My comments are censored because certain people do not like my opinion of the way the organization or government rams it up our axxxx. 

    The revolution is starting.

    Unfit Nitwit

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    Re: New mtb fee
    « Reply #28 on: December 31, 2015, 07:13:31 PM »
    I'm wondering what the "penalty" for being caught off road without a permit will be. I'm assuming a "slap on the wrist" is all....so little income will be gained from the uncaring masses.

    On a rail trail in Wisconsin the conservation officer would offer to sell you a pass, if you declined you were ticketed.

    firefighter56

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    Re: New mtb fee
    « Reply #29 on: December 31, 2015, 10:31:18 PM »
    I won't buy a pass nor will I be fined.  I simply won't ride in the state parks.  Additionally, I will camp in other campgrounds, kayak in other waters and shoot at other ranges.  I will continue to volunteer my time at the trails that are close to me and I enjoy riding.  I just won't be making my several trips a year to BCSP and I'll ride Rangeline, Town Run and Westwood instead of Ft. Ben.  Why take a chance on getting a ticket by breaking the rules when you could avoid the situation all together by either buying a pass or riding somewhere else.  That makes as much sense as charging only mountain bikers for using a multi-use trail.


    Keep in mind that if this works anything like violating hunting, fishing, boating and all the other laws that apply to being enforced by Conservation Officers, they can confiscate your equipment.  In other words, they can take your bike in addition to giving you a fine.  I'm pretty sure they wouldn't unless you gave them a really good reason to make your life suck but they could.
    « Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 10:34:52 PM by firefighter56 »

     

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