//Trail Status mouse over Java // First A frame Wood Feature

Author Topic: First A frame Wood Feature  (Read 11096 times)

Hocky

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2015, 01:26:57 PM »
Woah.  haha

Paul_Arlinghaus

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2015, 02:16:18 PM »
For those not aware, HMBA has two pending lawsuits that involve wood features.  This does impact the final decision.  I can speak more openly in person.  So come out tonight if you want to talk about it.


Thanks,


Paul
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ryantrek

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2015, 02:37:49 PM »
 I didn't realize there was a second lawsuit. I certainly understand how that could affect the final decision.

Inept_MTBer

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2015, 04:42:35 PM »
I'd like to come out and at least hear what the "skinny" is more or less... I presume the meeting is going to be at TRTP itself?

Edit: Apparently I can't english none too good.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 04:44:33 PM by Inept_MTBer »
Oh look, a dragonfl*CRUNCH!*

Zinjanthropus

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2015, 01:51:50 PM »
I realize I would have all the info I need if I had made it to the gathering last night but I am curious what direction the discussion took and what ideas rose to the top.

Anyone care to share what they learned of the A-frame/tabletop's possible future makeover?

Thanks!

Paul_Arlinghaus

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2015, 08:14:52 PM »
Both A frames are getting old and at least need to be redecked.  The first one will be lowered and both will have the transitions rounded out a bit. Should still be fun, but getting the height of the first one down will really help reduce injuries.


Paul
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VONZIPPER

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2015, 09:00:33 AM »
Going around it will also reduce your chances of injury. Everyone who rides the trail has that option at ALL of the man-made obstacles at Town Run. Going over one of them is a choice, NOT mandatory. Making it less challenging may also make it more inviting and draw in folks who would normally avoid it. Increased traffic could create an environment for increased injury. I would hope we would simply improve it, smooth it up in transition a bit and maybe provide a surface for foot placement at the apex. I think we all have to accept that choosing to ride over an obstacle when there is a clear path around it is an assumed risk and live with the consequences. I sure don't want to invite people to injure themselves but each rider has to be aware of his/her own limitations and ride within their own comfort zone. I think Town Run of all places is very forgiving in that regard and offers every rider a safe and enjoyable environment as it is right now. A sign posted prior to the obstacles labeling them Expert/ Intermediate Level may also cause less skilled riders to avoid them or at least evaluate them prior to just having a go at them first time out.

JTride

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2015, 12:25:16 PM »
Going around it will also reduce your chances of injury. Everyone who rides the trail has that option at ALL of the man-made obstacles at Town Run. Going over one of them is a choice, NOT mandatory. Making it less challenging may also make it more inviting and draw in folks who would normally avoid it. Increased traffic could create an environment for increased injury. I would hope we would simply improve it, smooth it up in transition a bit and maybe provide a surface for foot placement at the apex. I think we all have to accept that choosing to ride over an obstacle when there is a clear path around it is an assumed risk and live with the consequences. I sure don't want to invite people to injure themselves but each rider has to be aware of his/her own limitations and ride within their own comfort zone. I think Town Run of all places is very forgiving in that regard and offers every rider a safe and enjoyable environment as it is right now. A sign posted prior to the obstacles labeling them Expert/ Intermediate Level may also cause less skilled riders to avoid them or at least evaluate them prior to just having a go at them first time out.


I agree with this...but, I'm also not in the loop with everything going on with this topic.  I trust that the people in charge will do the right thing, whatever that may be.


On a side note, how do people even have grounds to file a lawsuit with Town Run?  Isn't it their choice to ride and take certain lines on the trails?

mtbikernate

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #23 on: May 22, 2015, 12:59:51 PM »
On a side note, how do people even have grounds to file a lawsuit with Town Run?  Isn't it their choice to ride and take certain lines on the trails?


Do you seriously have to ask this question? With as litigious as our society is? With the fact that ambulance chasers seriously stalk patients at the hospital who have had "accidents". With the fact that people refuse to accept personal responsibility for so many things?

JTride

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #24 on: May 22, 2015, 02:00:18 PM »
Yes, respectfully, I did ask it.   I understand anyone can file a claim for a large amount of reasons.  I was wondering what their main arguments would be though.  No need to talk down to me, relax.

Paul_Arlinghaus

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2015, 02:07:41 PM »
Currently, recreational immunity laws only protect private land owners.  HMBA does not have any protection from lawsuits.


We (HMBA) does bear the responsibility to make a reasonable effort to limit the risk of the trails.  Ideally on Technical Trail Features, we would increase the challenge without increasing the risk.  Our goal is to keep the fun/challenge of the features while reducing the chance of serious injury.


We also want to someday get permission to ride at night.  If we continue to have injuries on a feature .6 miles from the parking lot, it is unlikely that the local EMS/Fire Department would support night riding.



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JTride

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2015, 02:13:42 PM »
Thanks for taking the time to clarify that. 


Like I said earlier, I trust that the people in charge will do the right thing.


Thanks

djkouza

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2015, 03:16:53 PM »
We also want to someday get permission to ride at night.  If we continue to have injuries on a feature .6 miles from the parking lot, it is unlikely that the local EMS/Fire Department would support night riding.
Great point!  Night Riding > one "obstacle"  ...safety is up there too ;)
djkouza
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RiverBankRider

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2015, 11:33:40 PM »
I had a separated ac joint on the second A frame feature @4 years ago.  The trail leading to and exiting the feature is slightly off center and I hit it off center with my front wheel landing to the left of the structure and my back wheel on the structure.  I taco'd my front wheel and plowed straight down into the ground with a major endo.  Would a look at the angles of entry and exit to attempt a more straight-on trajectory reduce the chances of injury?  Maybe.  I manually adjust my angles today, against the flow of the trail.

I feel like the first A frame is fine, but I don't hit it anymore, because I can't afford to hurt myself if I make a stupid mistake or if for some reason the structure isn't the same as the previous time I hit it. 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 12:54:50 PM by RiverBankRider »

Inept_MTBer

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Re: First A frame Wood Feature
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2015, 09:56:37 PM »
I have to ask; are there any details on how specifically this individual managed to get hurt while trying to clear said obstacle? Things like where the paramedics found said individual, how far to what side of the A-frame they were, what the person claimed they were doing etc.

Not that I'm calling somebody who got injured a liar, but, well, people lie. This individual could have said they fell off the A-frame feature because it was "dangerous", but I'd like to see their statement and some sort of doctor's statement before considering if the obstacle itself needs to be radically altered or removed.
For all any of us know this person could have hurt themselves trying to emulate the latest "Red Monster Huck-fest awesomesauce" youtube post then decided to initiate a lawsuit rather than admit that they were riding above their skill level, there's just no way to tell right now.

With that being said, one thing that could be done is to stick big florescent warning signs in front of the obstacle indicating that it's optional rather than nessecary as part of the trail itself? Maybe something along the lines of the old "Drop" signs that are at eye height and pretty boldly colored IE You've been warned, you go further along this path and you're taking the risk.
Oh look, a dragonfl*CRUNCH!*

 

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