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zzSQL

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Tubeless and Air Compressors
« on: July 27, 2014, 11:19:27 PM »
Hi,
I switched to Tubeless this season, so far it seems great.
My only problem is with inflating a tire.

My neighbor has an air compressor with a high flow capacity that works after a while on a tire but what is your experience with compressors and tubeless?

I'm scoping some models of compressors at the hardware store but not sure which one would work best.

Any experience out there on inflating a tire with stan's tubeless goo?

Floor pumps don't work but I need a long-term solution.


Thanks
Greg
FT Ben.

Fett

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2014, 11:24:13 PM »
One of the biggest helps to inflating tires tubeless is to have a removable valve core. Removing it greatly improves the airflow into the tire and make inflation much easier.
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Zinjanthropus

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 02:00:36 AM »
Fett is correct in that filling with the valve core removed will increase the likelihood of the bead seating faster. I've also seen a floor pump seal a tire in under a minute through a valve with the core removed. You can then reinstall the core before the air entirely drains then top it off with any pump through the core. http://www.notubes.com/Core-Remover-Tool-P350.aspx or http://www.parktool.com/product/p/valve-core-tool-vc-1

I've found that getting the bead of the tire, both inside and outside, wet with soapy water allows it to slide into place easier. Spray bottles are handy things.

I have a small portable battery powered compressor (150 psi max) which has a native Schrader fitting. It puts out enough volume, but using a valve adapter on the valve itself prevents me from being able to fill with the core removed. So I struggle with seating tires initially without first mounting with a tube and letting them sit for a few hours. I then remove the tube, soap it up and it seals up nicely.  I need to look into modding my hose and fill head, just haven't taken the time. I don't think a full-blown compressor is required, although if you have other intentions for it then it may be worth the investment. For the record, I have been successful in getting some tires to fill without doing the tubed trick first, it's just not guaranteed.

If you go with a compressor, you may want to look at what is offered here, if only for ideas: http://www.prestacycle.com/buy_bicycle_parts_bike_tools.php  or you can piece together your own at Harbor Freight or your favorite hardware store, probably for less depending on the quality, but don't skimp on the gauge.

I tend to use Stan's sealant on nearly all my tire installs but do see how well the tire seals without it first. Sometimes the sealant isn't necessary, other times it will seal but after a few rides shows signs of needing sealant. But I've only added Stan's before initial mounting & inflation twice, using the method shown in the video on their site. I went ahead and invested in the injector and now the risk of mess (me being a klutz and bumping the tire while it hangs) is pretty much eliminated. I use the injector for the initial mounting and of course for topping it off later. Generally I don't add sealant unless I'm heading for a road trip and know I haven't added any for awhile or some incident on the trail seems to have triggered a regular loss of pressure. It typically lasts quite awhile and if you aren't changing tires often a bottle should last an entire season.

I'm a big fan of running a tubeless setup although my Alex rim conversion never took. I roll with Stan's rims and they have treated me well.

There is a bit more expense in going the tubeless route but the payoff is worth it in my opinion. Good luck in your adventure!


~Yet another Dave

Kirk Hilton

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2014, 07:00:48 AM »
Another thing you want to be careful when using an air compressor is over inflating the tire/rim and having the rim split in half.  Goggle it and you will see what I mean.  40 psi is about max for some rims and it takes sometimes aliitle more psi to seat the bead, but soap solution does help.  MTBR.com has a good Forum on all this.

Otter

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2014, 09:33:28 AM »
This quote confuses me a bit. 
 
"It puts out enough volume, but using a valve adapter on the valve itself prevents me from being able to fill with the core removed."
 
Are you saying that when you remove the core you then can't use your presta adapter?  This is what I do to seat my new tires and have never had a problem with the adapter filling a tire with the core removed.  If that's the case, you might just need a new adapter? 
 
Good suggestions all around and the tube is the method I use to use before I got my compressor.  It always works...just a bit more hassle.

Zinjanthropus

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2014, 10:36:39 AM »
Yes- those simple brass threaded presta-to-Schrader adapters don't thread onto the valve when the core is removed.                                                                     

Definitely limit/regulate the max pressure coming from a compressor. Some rims, like Stan's, have limits even below 40psi depending on tire width as blowing off the rim while riding is plenty dangerous, but having that happen while filling will give you quite a scare.

mtbikernate

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2014, 11:33:20 AM »
I have a prestaflator.  It's kinda junk.  It works, but it's made of Harbor Freight-quality stuff, and cost too much for what it is.  The schraeder adapter that comes with it destroyed two valve stems on my car this year because it's impossible to get it on/off cleanly and straight due to the lever on it.


I've been thinking of buying/making something better.


I've been using an injector to handle sealant since I started riding tubeless.  It's really the only way to go.  The "balance" method is really not what I'd call effective.


Compressor with the valve core removed is probably most important to me.  IME, soaping the sidewall is only important if you don't have a compressor and/or removable valve core.  Also very important, IME, is cleaning old sealant off of the rim bead seat and the bead of the tire prior to a seating attempt.

Dave Tozer

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2014, 12:24:16 PM »
I've always had an easy time with all the tires I "Stansify". Dumb luck maybe.

I hang the wheel on the wall with the valve at the top. I soap up the beads on both sides. I don't take the presta valve core out - I just use the shrader adapter. I downsized to a small Mikita compressor that doesn't have much tank volume but works great. Plenty of psi's. I have a air hose reel on my ceiling, so even getting the air hose ready is easy.

I squish down the tire at the top - directly above where the valve is and put the air to it. This really helps to get the air to the other areas of the tire. They inflate in a hurry and I stop the air after I hear the "ping" of the tire seating on the wheel. Just a couple of pings and then pump it up with my floor pump to around 40. I rotate the wheel around to get the goop spread out (the Stan's dance) and then leave it overnight and see how it is the next morning.

I don't even pull out the old, solidified Stan's goop around the tire beads.  I may be more lucky than good, but so far...

I prefer the Stan's valves versus Specialized. The Spechy is more likely to leak initially at the valve.

I always have at least a couple of spare valves and replacement valve cores in my bike tool box, along with a shrader adapter for emergencies away from home, at races, etc.

Wall

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2014, 11:27:43 AM »
I have a cheap Shop Smith 5 gallon compressor from Menards that works perfect.  I have a 3 gallon Porter Gable at work that struggles.
 
A 5 gallon of any brand will probably work for you if all you are doing is inflating tubeless bike tires.  I've also used it to seat riding mower tires.

Otter

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2014, 12:23:36 PM »
Yes- those simple brass threaded presta-to-Schrader adapters don't thread onto the valve when the core is removed.                                                                     

You might look into a different adapter.  I've got several of them (all very old brass ones) and they've all worked perfectly with the cores removed.  It's amazing to me how much removing the cores actually helps. 

Zinjanthropus

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2014, 03:07:50 PM »
Thanks Otter- didn't know that. I'd even gone out and tested mine one more time before posting.

Ignorance is bliss...

4mula1

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2014, 10:23:27 AM »
I couldn't get my Schrader chuck to work even with the adapter so I pulled the presta-only head from my old Silca pump and put it on the hose from the compressor.  It's like magic.

Unfit Nitwit

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2014, 10:23:23 PM »
Does anyone else dope the inside sidewalls with a coat of sealant and let it dry before installing?
I do that with tubeless ready, and they seat with a floor pump just like my UST tires.

mtbikernate

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2014, 12:51:44 AM »
never tried that.  I've never had luck getting the beads to seat on my Mavic UST rims without a compressor, or using the overnight tube pre-seat method.  Maybe tires just fit too loosely on them?  Not sure, but I absolutely need a compressor.  Pull the valve core out, and bam!  Beads seat, inject sealant with a high volume sealant injector syringe (mine is a caffe latex one), reinstall valve core, and inflate.

zzSQL

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Re: Tubeless and Air Compressors
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2014, 10:29:46 AM »
Someone at a DINO race event mentioned that he first installs a new tire with a tube on the rim and inflates it to sit for a few days.
This might fit the tire to the tire on the rim and make the transition to tubeless easier b/c the tire is formed to the wheel.
Makes, sense. Haven't tried it though.

Also, i find it useful to, instead of soapy water, try a paintbrush and stan's liquid as a lube during inflation.
It's pretty slippery stuff and helps it fit into place.

Loving tubeless though.
Very light but  so far not so reliable. (Like at  Muscatatuck and SWW where I flatted at DINO #4 and #7.)
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 01:52:18 PM by zzSQL »

 

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