Sub 22 Race rig

[zzSQL]

Hello all,
So, I returned to racing last August at Logansport and love it so much I want to build up a race rig that's 22 pounds or less.

Right now my Stumpy is 27.2, not a very competitive race weight if I want to return to Expert racing. (Haven't raced Expert since they called it that years ago.)

The frames I'm considering are: (No particular order)
- Konda Hei Hei Supreme (4.4 Lbs)
- S-Works Epic Carbon (>5 Lbs)
- Cannondale Trigger (<5 Lbs)
- Trek Fuel
- Pivot Mach 429 Carbon (6 Lbs!)
- Niner R.I.P. 9 RDO Carbon (5+ Lbs)
- Rocky Mountain Element RSL (5+ Lbs)
- Ibis Ripley (5.5 Lbs)
- Ellsworth (Too heavy and over-priced)

I'm leaning toward FS but a hardtail is not out of the question.
I'd have to re-tool my handling though.

So, any experience with one of the above frames?

Price range is 3K or less.
Any input?

Greg
FT Ben

[BSUdude]

If your price range is 3k or less I think you've priced yourself out of at least some of those frames, unless you're going used.  Hardtail frames are cheaper & intrinsically lighter than FS frames, but obviously beat you up more.  Although I hear good things about the shock dampening qualities of new carbon hardtails, I can't personally vouch for that.  Building up a FS frame that's less than 22 pounds is certainly doable, but not a given.  I'm wondering about the possibility of switching out some parts on your current bike to get down to 22 lbs.  Then you don't have to get used to a new frame.  Are you running tubeless?  If not then you can drop probably 2-3 pounds doing that and give yourself a better handling rig.  Also if you're upgrading your wheels to tubeless you could go to 1x11 and drop some more weight there.  Or you could really splurge on some carbon rims...  A set of new enve tubeless wheels would be less than 3k and would almost certainly drop more weight from your current wheelset.


Although a FS stumpy isn't exactly ideal for XC racing, so maybe that is part of the consideration in looking at new frames as well...

[Zinjanthropus]

22 lbs?! Is that what it takes to race at that level? I guess they actually have taken the mountain out of mountain bike racing.   More power to ya man, and thanks for opening my eyes. Maybe something with less travel should be on my list for next year if I decide it's worth all the effort to stick to it. (just hitting a couple DINOs this year in Intro)  Then again, maybe I need to find a race that makes more use of the travel I currently have.

Wish I could offer some feedback but have minimal experience in riding other bikes/frames. I would think you'd need to get time on each one to really know how it feels to your body, and even then it'd have to be close to the fit you expect to race with. Everything else is just opinion, which I know is what you're seeking.

Should we assume you've maxed out the budget on trimming down the Stumpy? Is the frame really the part that's holding it back, or would you not build a new racebike with the same components? I couldn't tell from your inquiry.

~Yet another Dave

[Dave G.]

I once had a Niner Jet9 RDO, with a modest parts spec, and it tipped the scales at 27 lbs.  You could get a carbon FS down to that weight, but you'd probably need to spend much more than $3k.  A RIP9 RDO might be too much bike for XC racing, but you could get that down to sub 25 lbs.
 
If your body can handle a hardtail for 1.5 to 2 hours, you can do either an alloy or carbon Niner with a suspension fork, 1600g Stan's Crest wheelset, Rocket Ron's and a carbon cockpit and get the weight down to 20-22 lbs,and likely at budget.
 
As an example,  I currently run a Niner One9 alloy with Stan's Crest wheels, Rocket Ron front and Thunder Burt rear, SRAM X9 1x10 drivetrain, carbon cockpit and a carbon RDO rigid fork and it is at 20 lbs. If I swap the  RDO fork with a Reba RLT, then it jumps to 22 lbs.

[Fett]

To get a FS 29er to 22lbs will likely take a large amount of money thrown at it.  Most of the Cat1 FS 29er are around 24lb range with hardtails in the 21-22lbs range. You will be competive in that range if you concentrate your efforts on keeping the rotating weight as low as possible.
I have an Trek Superfly 100 that is XTR/XT, SRAM XX cranks, King/Revo/carbon rims, that sits right around 23.9 lbs.  I could probably shave another pound off of it for alot of money or put some superlight 400gr tires on it that do not corner well.
If 3k is your budget and you want to be under 22lbs, you will likely need to stick to a hardtail.

[zzSQL]

Thanks for the responses.
I'm not ordinarily a weight weenie but I'm trying to eliminate obstacles to a good race year with smart training, diet, strength training and a fast bike. I'm really having fun with the DINO series. If you're not taking part, we're only up to race 3 this weekend at Logansport. Not too late to come out with us.

Anyway, per your feedback:
- 3K price range is for the frame only. My Spinergy/XTR/Carbon parts should be sufficient to keep weight low.
- I'm not above a good used frame. Sadly I failed to bid effectively on Ebay for a pretty Konda Hei Hei Supreme frame and missed out : /
- I’m pretty sure my Stumpy is too heavy to race effectively. Specialized hasn't published (Or I can’t find it) how much my Stumpjumper frame weighs which means it's heavier than they want. I've put the best components I can find to reduce weight but it's still 27.2lbs.
- The last time I raced hard tail was after training on a software which turned out as well as you might expect. Painfully. There’s a clear difference in handling the two I need to manage.

I think it will turn out to be a used Kona Hei Hei Supreme or S-Works Epic Carbon for soft tail.
Those are 4.4 -5 pound frames and are pretty cost effective used.

For a Niner hard tail.
I'm just kinda worried about getting beat up by a hard tail trying to race one after years on a soft tail.

Greg

[DeepVI]

Sub-20lb fat bike. 

http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/05/15/did-fair-wheel-bikes-build-the-worlds-lightest-fat-bike/

[BSUdude]

I've been lusting over an Spec Epic or Cannondale Scalpel for a long time but they are always out of my price range and I am too afraid of breaking carbon since I would be buying used and probably out of warranty...I would be all over the Epic if I had to pick from that list.

[DeepVI]

I am too afraid of breaking carbon since I would be buying used and probably out of warranty...I would be all over the Epic if I had to pick from that list.

If you're worried about the durability of carbon and you've never scene this video, it should quiet them.

[mtbikernate]

My wife has a small carbon Santa Cruz Blur XC and it comes in at over 24lbs.  Granted, she's not racing on it so doesn't have the lightest spec possible.


It has a Fox Float RL fork, Float RP23 shock
DT Swiss Tricon wheelset (26")
XTR 2x10 drivetrain
XTR Race hydros
Race Face carbon bars
Thomson stem
Thomson Masterpiece seatpost
Conti X-King ProTection 2.4/2.2 tires (could probably save a lb here with wimpy race tires).


We got it used last year, but our best guess is that it would retail somewhere in the neighborhood of $7k+.

[PKemppainen]

I can't speak for the frames you've listed, but a Devinci Atlas Carbon FS frame is 4.5 lbs and the MSRP is $2099. Bicycling magazine just recently gave it an "Editors Choice" thumbs up.

[BSUdude]

I am too afraid of breaking carbon since I would be buying used and probably out of warranty...I would be all over the Epic if I had to pick from that list.

If you're worried about the durability of carbon and you've never scene this video, it should quiet them.

I've seen that video.  I've no doubt that carbon works great when the load is applied in the manner in which the frame is designed.  What happens when you wipe out and your frame goes flying into a rock or a tree?

[DeepVI]

I've seen that video.  I've no doubt that carbon works great when the load is applied in the manner in which the frame is designed.  What happens when you wipe out and your frame goes flying into a rock or a tree?

Did you watch the end of the video where they were using the frame as an axe?  If it's good enough to use for DH rims and frames, it's good enough for me.  Plenty of people ride carbon frames out west, nothing but rocks.  I'd ride one in a heart beat.  I'm sure the engineers have taken into account a few nicks and scratches.  If frame failure was an actual issue, I'm sure we'd have heard about it by now.  The Cannondale "Crack-and-Fail" fiasco from the late 90's is one such example.  Besides I've cracked two AL rear ends, didn't end in catastrophic failure.  Even if you do crack a CF frame, in all likely hood it's going to be in the rear end. What's the worse that can happen you have to walk out?  The old Trek OCLV frames are still kicking around in good shape.  CF is just going to keep trickling down to lower price points.  Embrace it, it's great stuff!

[tmac]

I would agree with DeepVI. I've had a carbon fiber frame for several years now and it's bounced off a number of trees and rocks - so far, so good

[Otter]

If you are looking at $3K for the frame alone, I would put the Turner Czar at the top of your list.  Turner makes amazing bikes that handle very very well.  They're neutral riding yet very snappy.  The company is small and their customer service is top notch, if I ever go back to FS, Turner is the only way I'll go. 
 
With that said, try out a couple of good carbon HT's if you get a chance...they're definitely not FS, but they are night and day compared to the stiff aluminum HT's of the past.  You're more than welcome to take mine for a ride sometime.  Good luck, bike shopping is FUN!