//Trail Status mouse over Java // Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.

Author Topic: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.  (Read 10928 times)

Shark

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2014, 07:01:07 PM »
Actually,
 I think we should start a discussion why 29's are better than 26ers....or wait...27.5...650B....fat....fat+.... ;)

Is carbon better than......?....yes...yes it is. end of discussion.

Must get off here....going to ride my bike....in the mountains... :) yay
Fat is where it's at!......Tires that is.
Moved to Idaho....:) Now I actually *mountain* bike.

DeepVI

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2014, 07:13:48 PM »
Actually,
 I think we should start a discussion why 29's are better than 26ers....or wait...27.5...650B....fat....fat+.... ;)

Is carbon better than......?....yes...yes it is. end of discussion.

Must get off here....going to ride my bike....in the mountains... :) yay


Of all the things you just said, that hurts the most.  Idaho must be amazing.
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getsometrail

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2014, 06:06:24 PM »
I also feel like there is a lot of road bike mentality to mountain bikers around here.  Speed and distance, speed and distance.  Maybe because a lot of folks used to ride road bikes;


It's not just IN, they are called "dirt roadies".  :)  BTW no offense or fingers in the eye, lets keep it light people.


This is very much true in the "industry" as well.  Look at how drastically MTB's have changed in the last couple years.  The accepted standards of frame geometry and components are being thrown out the window.  Dropper posts. 1X drivetrains, short stem/wide handlebars to name a few.  I for one will never attach a FR to my bike or have bars that are narrower than 760mm or a stem over 50mm. After riding 780's the 760's feel downright twitchy on my HT.  This is a whole other subject, so if we want to we can get in a scuffle on another thread.  I'll even start it.  How about "Your components are wrong, as are you"  :D
I am totally with you on the bars and stems size, while were at it lets throw in a little love for flats as well.  I never realized the difference it made until I rode a couple of short stem long bar bikes. 
Mostly I'm glad enough folks ride that we can have these debates. 
Roads...?  Where we're going we don't need roads!  Travis Eacret 2008 Giant Trance X2.

DeepVI

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2014, 07:06:50 PM »
I am totally with you on the bars and stems size, while were at it lets throw in a little love for flats as well.  I never realized the difference it made until I rode a couple of short stem long bar bikes. 
Mostly I'm glad enough folks ride that we can have these debates.


I'm still a clips guys.  I ride flats when dirt jumping and DHing, but that's about it.  I'm seriously considering getting a set of platform clips for this DH season.  Been riding them 20yrs, so it's just what I like.  SPD's of course, I've tried Times and CB's and found them both lacking.  A big plus is that SPD's open a beer the easiest. :)
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jim_michaux

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2014, 09:17:23 PM »
what a fun thread!?!?!!!!!!  ;D

i am not jim from accounting ...

i like all kinds of trail surfaces, depending on my mood and what kind of libation is in the vicinity.

you want hard, whatever that means?  if in indiana, drop the gears, 'cuz you don't need 'em.  one gear your way to pukedom, i did!  ride bcsp and then have a coke on the way to nebo...--that was hard, with props, not like stage props though.

one gear out on schooner, for fun.  no puke, but it's a fun hard one.  ;)  kinda like somewhere around 1988.   

or, ride gears  and do the schooner yo-yo!?!?!?!?!!!!!?

if you want really, extra, super duper hard, go east.  ride PA.  it'll leave you black and blue in the ego. 

so does noble canyon, east county, san diego.   :P :o

mtbikernate

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2014, 09:31:18 AM »
I'm riding flats full time this year, and I have to say I'm pretty pleased.


I don't see many locals riding flats, but there are a few I've noticed on the trails.  I do see a lot of out-of-towners at bcsp on flats, though.


I'm using 5.10 Freeriders, which I like mostly.  I could use a stiffer sole, but I like them otherwise.  I've never been able to get a comfortable fit from the "mtb" clipless shoes and these work well in that dept.  They also grip the pedals nearly as much as clipless do.  I've had no trouble on any of the long grinds at bcsp.


I've ridden clipless pedals for a lot of years and had no issues riding techy stuff with them, but I'm pleased with flats in those situations, too.  It probably isn't related to my recent change, but I am cleaning more technical terrain this year on flats than I did last year on clipless.


It is kinda sad, though, about finding good shoes for flats.  Nobody within 100mi of Indy sells 5.10 bike shoes, or anything else comparable that I can find.  Had to order mine online without trying them on.  Have found a few "trail" type shoes with a more casual look, but they also have a clipless panel in the sole.  I've not read good reviews about that feature with straight flats.  For shoes with the softer rubber panel you have to cut off, I hear that pinned platforms will rip it off over time.  For shoes with the harder plastic panel that bolts to the shoe, the harder rubber/plastic provides crappy grip on the platforms.

DeepVI

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2014, 09:53:21 AM »

I'm using 5.10 Freeriders, which I like mostly.  I could use a stiffer sole, but I like them otherwise.  I've never been able to get a comfortable fit from the "mtb" clipless shoes and these work well in that dept.  They also grip the pedals nearly as much as clipless do.  I've had no trouble on any of the long grinds at bcsp.


I think that's my problem, is that I haven't full committed to flats by getting a good pair of 5.10's.  Can spend thousands on bikes/parts, $100 for a pair of good shoes, that's too much.  Maybe this DH season I will.  Zappos has them, and they have a wicked return policy.  That's where I bought my PI Alp X's. 



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Zinjanthropus

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2014, 11:24:07 AM »
I'm riding flats full time this year, and I have to say I'm pretty pleased.

Dang- every time I ride flats my rims get all dinged up. :P Must look into titanium...

Seriously, I do similarly wear 5.10s on platforms. Love the stealth compound. I shoveled the driveway in them a few times after riding around the neighborhood this winter and slipped not. I shan't be swayed to switch to clipless or my riding confidence and thus intensity would be impacted and that's just no fun.

Amazon has warehouses in Indiana, and might stock 5.10s in them so it's within 100 miles for me. :)
I'm getting another pair but haven't settled on a model yet. Want something lighter I can use for road riding. (shhhh, I know, I'm silly)

I think I would feel trapped and cramped with sub-750mm bars, like I was in a phone booth with 5 other clowns. I'm still trying to convince friends to swap stems and bars but alas, they like their stock bits, and one his sandals with toeclips- yikes!

Nothing is future-proof. I think I am missing out on the 35mm bar craze...


~Yet another Dave


getsometrail

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2014, 07:10:10 PM »
I ride often with my 4 & 8 year old and I just got tired of always swapping my pedals.  I did some research about flats and decided to go all in with a pair of 5.10's and some Easton Flat Boys pedals.  I have great grip even on the roughest terrain and actually feel more confident when my bike is in the air.  It took some getting used to and you have to be more aware of where your pedals are in relation to the trail features but after a year that all comes without any thought.  For the type of recreational riding I do I don't feel like I lose any pedal efficiency and will probably always ride flats from now on.  I also feel like I can put more torque on the cranks when cornering which is something I'm still learning to do.  I think the pedals and shoes you choose will make all the difference.
Roads...?  Where we're going we don't need roads!  Travis Eacret 2008 Giant Trance X2.

mtbikernate

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #39 on: June 12, 2014, 09:04:23 PM »
I got my Freeriders from REI online, and used my 20% coupon on them.  REI also has a very good return policy, so I gave it a go.  They do not have any other models of 5.10 bike shoes, though.  And not many colors of the Freeriders, either.

Shark

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2014, 11:46:38 AM »
Sorry 'bout that.... ;)
The other terrible part is everything is rocky, so riding after/during rain is A-ok.



Actually,
 I think we should start a discussion why 29's are better than 26ers....or wait...27.5...650B....fat....fat+.... ;)

Is carbon better than......?....yes...yes it is. end of discussion.

Must get off here....going to ride my bike....in the mountains... :) yay


Of all the things you just said, that hurts the most.  Idaho must be amazing.
Fat is where it's at!......Tires that is.
Moved to Idaho....:) Now I actually *mountain* bike.

grayhound

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2014, 01:22:28 PM »
That"s just not right Shark! Showing pics like that will make people want to come out there and ride with you! O'yeah, we are coming out, and I can't wait! See you soon buddie!

Shark

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2014, 01:49:03 PM »
That"s just not right Shark! Showing pics like that will make people want to come out there and ride with you! O'yeah, we are coming out, and I can't wait! See you soon buddie!

Can't wait!

I hope you guys have your climbing legs in shape, because everything out here is climb up, bomb down, repeat. (except Silver Mt. when we spend the day riding the gondola up!)
Fat is where it's at!......Tires that is.
Moved to Idaho....:) Now I actually *mountain* bike.

allmountin

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2014, 01:54:03 AM »

Not sure how we got here, but I switched to flats this winter, and have been riding them since.  It's been brilliant.  I've had nagging knee pain/discomfort since I started this sport ~4 years ago.  Since I've switched to flats, I've been problem free.  The transition was much easier than I expected.  5.10 Impact and some Teva slopestyle shoes for around town.


I hate to bring this back on subject, and it's unfair to snipe this from Paul's excellent post, but here goes:



The reality is that most riders don't want to ride expert level trails.



I find this statement to be fallacious.  It's very PC though, which makes me hate it even more. 


At the risk of sounding elitist, I'll point out the obvious, with an analogy.  Remember the movie 'The Matrix'.  A scene where Neo has a probe stuck into his head, and a few seconds later says, "I know Kung Fu."  Were it so simple to acquire 'expert' level skills, whatever that means to you, then everyone would be an expert level rider.  There is no downside to having the skill set, even if you don't choose to use it.  If all riders had the appropriate skill set, presumably most of them would, in fact, want to ride expert level trails.  Given that, I think a more accurate statement would be:  "The reality is that most riders won't(some maybe can't) invest the time and effort required to ride expert level trails."


A buddy of mine, after watching the latest Danny MacAskill vid, comments on how everyone has a talent, and he's found out what his is.  As if Danny just went walking through the woods and 'found' his talent.  I see a rider that has dedicated a couple of decades to progressive riding, and what my buddy perceives as talent, is actually skill derived from years of hard work.  Attributing it to talent is simplistic and insulting. 


This all goes back to the point Levy made about how those who invest the most are least represented in the new trail building model. 
Quote
Hell, it seems like most of the money that many local associations receive goes straight towards building the easiest trails that the terrain permits rather than funding difficult singletrack that longtime club members and riders would find challenging. Something is wrong with that picture, but criticizing trail work of any kind is like joking about cancer in that you're likely to offend anyone that hears you.[/size]



It is a popular notion in my neck of the woods that you can simply throw in a few features on a beginner/intermediate trail to placate the higher level riders.  I love a good feature, but it's a tiny blip on multi-mile trail.  A beginner trail with some optional expert features does not an expert trail make.  Lipstick on a pig.  It needs to be designed for that level through and through, beginners be damned.  These discussions usually end in the usual 'show up for trail days if you want 'x' to be built' type of remarks.  I show up for trail days, build features, and have personally hand benched(lone wolf style) a few hill reroutes and two new sections of trail over the last couple of years.  I've come to realize that unless you're the guy in the ear of a receptive land manager, or have the ear of a guy who does, you aren't going to change anything. 

David Kuehnen

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Re: Mountain biking is hard, as it should be.
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2014, 08:29:15 AM »
This thread needs to be taken behind a barn and be put down. 
David Kuehnen, PE

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