//Trail Status mouse over Java // Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates

Author Topic: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates  (Read 51309 times)

Raleighguy29

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #90 on: October 16, 2015, 11:54:29 AM »

Hey I did the rock ramp work. Try it you'll like it!


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not everything needs to be a flow trail huffy


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mtbspec

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #91 on: October 16, 2015, 01:14:00 PM »
Keep the flow coming

mtbikernate

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #92 on: October 17, 2015, 05:10:30 PM »
I rode the ramp rock with the dirt piled up behind it. Damn that sucked. I kicked all the dirt out from behind it. That was better. Flow does not mean that there can't be chunk in or along the trail. Especially on optional lines. There was nothing about that rock that was above intermediate difficulty before the dirt was piled up behind it.


As for the root smoothing, I don't see much evidence of the root smoothing I saw on LC a number of weeks ago. I did notice some root smoothing on Schoen today. But it looks like it's getting worn away faster than I expected it to. Annoying, but not enough to do anything about, beyond talking to whoever is doing it if we ever find out.


As to the perpetual modifications to "improve the flow", can we hold off? Like Raleighguy said, not every trail or every section of trail needs to be a flow trail. There are maintenance issues out there that affect the drainage and durability of the trail that we haven't nailed yet.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 05:18:52 PM by Nate Hawkins »

Raleighguy29

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #93 on: October 17, 2015, 06:04:08 PM »

I rode the ramp rock with the dirt piled up behind it. Damn that sucked. I kicked all the dirt out from behind it. That was better. Flow does not mean that there can't be chunk in or along the trail. Especially on optional lines. There was nothing about that rock that was above intermediate difficulty before the dirt was piled up behind it.


As for the root smoothing, I don't see much evidence of the root smoothing I saw on LC a number of weeks ago. I did notice some root smoothing on Schoen today. But it looks like it's getting worn away faster than I expected it to. Annoying, but not enough to do anything about, beyond talking to whoever is doing it if we ever find out.


As to the perpetual modifications to "improve the flow", can we hold off? Like Raleighguy said, not every trail or every section of trail needs to be a flow trail. There are maintenance issues out there that affect the drainage and durability of the trail that we haven't nailed yet.
Wow!! Someone actually agrees with me! Who knew that could happen.


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tomc

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2015, 07:55:18 PM »
The only real good improvement I've seen out there from the mystery maintenance person is at the turn around point (land of dispute) on LC at that creek crossing. It has been built up with dirt and now doesn't have as much endo-potential. That area was starting to sink and had become a steeper drop into the crossing. I know it won't last because, well,.. it's just dirt and will get washed away but it flows pretty well right now. But some of the other spots I was kinda like, ... sigh, .. this is overkill and kinda takes away from the whole mountain biking thing. We've got to have some roots and rough spots along the way.   

Jeff Blum

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2015, 08:33:44 PM »
I rode the ramp rock with the dirt piled up behind it. Damn that sucked. I kicked all the dirt out from behind it. That was better. Flow does not mean that there can't be chunk in or along the trail. Especially on optional lines. There was nothing about that rock that was above intermediate difficulty before the dirt was piled up behind it.


As for the root smoothing, I don't see much evidence of the root smoothing I saw on LC a number of weeks ago. I did notice some root smoothing on Schoen today. But it looks like it's getting worn away faster than I expected it to. Annoying, but not enough to do anything about, beyond talking to whoever is doing it if we ever find out.


As to the perpetual modifications to "improve the flow", can we hold off? Like Raleighguy said, not every trail or every section of trail needs to be a flow trail. There are maintenance issues out there that affect the drainage and durability of the trail that we haven't nailed yet.

Here's the thing, Nate:  For better or for worse, that dirt was put there by the guy who proposed, fought for, designed, and essentially built the entire system of trails at Fort Harrison.  I didn't think it was 100% necessary either, but it's not my place, or YOURS, to undo changes that Huf, or any other trusted trail steward, has made at Fort Harrison.  If you don't like a feature, don't ride it, but please don't change things just because they don't fit YOUR view of what mountain biking should be.  If everyone did that, we'd have a real mess on our hands.

And for the record, there's no "mystery maintenance person" at Fort Harrison.  The guy you saw is Mike Hufhand, who's been building trail throughout Indiana for more than 15 years, and who I've had the pleasure of working next to for the last 6 years.  If it wasn't for him, we most likely wouldn't even have trails at the Fort to ride.  As such, tomc's comment "The only real good improvement I've seen" is especially frustrating, because to me ALL of the MTB trails at Fort Ben are an "improvement" that Huf has made to the park.

If you see him out there working on something and want to know why he's made a specific change, just stop and ask him.  He'll talk to you ad nauseam about flow, opening up the radius of a corner, the difference between 29" and 26", etc.  Then, when you're tired of listening, get back on your bike and ride, and as you're riding thank your lucky stars that there's someone as passionate, dedicated, and hard working as Mike Hufhand, out there building trails for you to ride on.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2015, 09:35:13 PM by Jeff Blum »

Willyjaybob

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2015, 08:56:16 PM »
Hufhand, thank you for your work! Here's the thing...I'll ride ANYTHING that's out there and so will most people. If it flows, great! If it's chunky, great! If it's rocky, great! If there are two lines, I'll do a different one each lap--because it's fun! And if I don't like something, who cares? I'll ride it anyway. Because I'm thankful to have a place to ride. It hasn't always been this way in Indiana. Let's not forget that.

Just because some people lick the icing off the Oreo and don't eat the wafer doesn't mean Nabisco should just start shipping bags of icing, now does it? <-- That's a metaphor.  ;D

I say let those that want to build the trails and know what the heck they are doing build the trails the way they want to build it. No complaints here. I'm just happy to have a place to ride. And thank you to those who build-you are appreciated.
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tomc

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #97 on: October 18, 2015, 12:31:26 PM »
Look, I've seen Huf out there numerous times working on the trails. I've stopped and talked with him and other trail workers. I rode some of the lines he was constructing and gave some feedback. I've volunteered a handful of times earlier this spring. I stop on rides and unplug drains, clear debris, report trail issues, inform wrong way riders, and so forth. I'm not one to complain about stuff so forgive me on that.


 Earlier this year I know Huf posted some pictures of "trail work" that random people were doing to try and improve situations when the trails were really bad. He informed all of us forum users why this was a bad idea. (sticks cross creeks, drainage problems, etc). He also urged anyone to point them to the HMBA site so they could become constructive helpers and not lead to bad practices that would harm the trails. I've learned a lot in the short amount of time I've been on these forums and time volunteering.


Is Huf really the one digging big holes trailside and piling it all over?? I'd be really surprised if it was. Have you seen any of these 3 ft circle holes? When I was retrieving many wheelbarrows of dirt while helping on trail days I was not instructed to do it like that. When we left the area we were digging in far into the woods it looked as if no one had even been there.  I'm super thankful for the trails and the people who put in tireless efforts to maintain them. I found out right away how much work is involved in fixing a 6 ft section of trail. I don't care one way or another about the rock or roots or whatever. There have been plenty of improvements over the few years and I ride it all and am happy about it.


 If authorized trail workers are the ones digging holes trailside then I apologize. I would not have ever guessed that was a best practice but I still have lots to learn.

David Kuehnen

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #98 on: October 18, 2015, 02:53:25 PM »
Let' s try to focus on the original topic   which is that someone has taken it upon themselves to "fix" the trails at Fort Harrison.   The solution might be to bring them unti the HMBA fold so that we can harness their energy for good. 

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Doe

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #99 on: October 18, 2015, 07:47:24 PM »
Well, the original topic was Trail Building Updates.  I haven't ridden the trails at the Fort since the end of Sept. but the discussion here that started 10/13 has interested me.  There's someone besides Huf making changes because he even commented on it. (Huf did, however,  say he made the ramp rock change.)  But as David K said, let's try to find this mystery guy and channel his energy properly!

Thanks again to all the trail builders and maintainers!  (And think of me when riding Four Point Doe.   8) )

Jeff Blum

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #100 on: October 18, 2015, 09:38:01 PM »
Have you seen any of these 3 ft circle holes?

Depends what holes you're talking about.  Are they on the downhill side of Snake Creek, near the new berms that we built?  If so, those were probably created by me and Huf harvesting soil to build up the berms.  They take a ton of dirt to create, and when it's just 2 guys out there for a couple hours, you harvest where you can.  And yeah, I think we forgot to cover them up, but I also figured that we might need more dirt in those spots so wouldn't have done much cover-up anyway.

If you're talking about somewhere else, no, I haven't seen any holes.

Rick M

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #101 on: October 19, 2015, 03:06:45 PM »
Saw this guy last week past pipedream. Was not Huf or anyone else I've ever seen at work days anywhere. He was covering roots up and I noticed the holes thought it was odd but didn't say anything. Guess I should have
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tomc

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #102 on: October 19, 2015, 05:15:14 PM »
The ugliest of the holes is at the end of Schoen up top. Assuming that one was dug out to smooth over the roots and rocks nearby. There are others but I can't remember all the places(don't recall snake creek). In the end I was really just trying to find a positive for the energy put forth by this guy. I didn't mean to demean any of the hard work done by you guys who know what you're doing. I appreciate it and understand the limitations of workers and resources.


But for example, there are a few back drains (I think that is what they are called) on LC coming in towards the connector that were constructed this spring when everything was wet constantly. The rocks on these drains have been covered and smoothed out by dirt. I'm assuming, but not entirely sure, that someone has intentionally covered them to smooth the trail. Does this sort of negate the purpose of the drains? Will they need to be dug out and reset to work right? I ride these trails a lot and have noticed this a few places. I'll certainly keep an eye out for anyone doing trail work and direct them here. It would probably be a great asset to have another wandering woods trail maintenance junkie using correct techniques like yourselves out there.     


 

mtbikernate

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #103 on: October 19, 2015, 07:58:55 PM »
FYI, many of the drains fill with dirt on their own due to storm runoff. They need to be cleared out occasionally to keep them flowing. The ones on the snake creek climb, in particular, tend to fill with sediment quickly.


the most obvious of the borrow pits, I agree, is near the top of Schoen right near the parking lot and before the meadow. There are some roots right adjacent to it that have been smoothed.

TonyDz

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Re: Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates
« Reply #104 on: October 28, 2015, 03:27:13 PM »
My two cents: I like the re-worked trail sections at Ft. Ben.
Fixing wet areas or changing a turn radius to improve flow and cut out some of the worst "jankies" works for me. And I like all the new alternate routes and rock-overs added this year.
Now, packing dirt around roots or leaving "craters" in plain sight by the trail are clearly the work of non-HMBA folk and I'll second what David K, Doe and Blum said on that count.
It may just be the seven month layoff getting the clavicle to heal, but dang riding those trails is fun. Not perfect, or what I'd want in every respect, but darn fun.
In the end, I'm just so thankful to all those who lobbied, designed, built and maintain the trails that I get to so conveniently ride.
Hope my schedule allows me to get back out soon for some maintenance sessions or - dare I hope - some new trail construction at the Fort. Until then, happy trails, all.
Riding with gratitude for all the volunteer trail builders, maintainers and HMBA members...

 

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