Fort Harrison Trail Building Updates

[tomc]

Sorry I couldn't make it yesterday for work session but speaking of that section,.. any work going on this weekend?? I'd love to see that section cleaned up a bit. When I stopped and looked it just seemed like the drainages needed to be re-tooled because they aren't diverting water off the trail. Then that rut after the climb. Just past that section is an awful muddy right banked turn into loose and looser rocks in the crossing(we looked at it one night but its getting bad now). I'm learning stuff each time out there about how to go about fixing areas. Anyway, if there is any inkling about trail work over the weekend give me a little notice. Otherwise I'll plan on next week.   

[mtbikernate]

Now I don't even know what you're talking about.  Snake Creek?  That's a bit of a rodeo climb, but necessary due to the drainage issues.  And I can't think of a single section that doesn't fit the intermediate rating of LC.

Yes. Snake Creek. I have had disagreements over the way the drainage is handled there for some time. I do not believe that those abrupt drains are necessary. I think there are better ways. But unfortunately, my suggestions are panned and ignored.

[jasonhilt]

Yes. Snake Creek. I have had disagreements over the way the drainage is handled there for some time. I do not believe that those abrupt drains are necessary. I think there are better ways. But unfortunately, my suggestions are panned and ignored.

The abrupt drains are not meant to be permanent.  Original plans were to rock the drain crossings and to smooth it out.  At this point I'm not sure that part of the trail is even worth trying to save.  I'll have to talk to Paul and see what he thinks.

As for your ideas you had, what are they?  I don't remember hearing them.

[David Kuehnen]

I would agree that the current system of drains is unsustainable.  In another year or so of repairing the damage to them will render them unrideable.   


It will take a LOT of rock and a LOT of volunteer labor to properly fix this area.  The required  effort and material to fix this one section would probably be enough to armor the the majority of the other problem spots on  the LC trail.


That said, I would suggest a reroute to higher ground that would minimize the number of exposed seeps that keep this area wet and damage prone.

[Bruce]

it makes a lot of sense.  it could conceivably be done in a day with enough trail builders.

[mtbikernate]

It was last year, IIRC. I didn't think the whole back drain thing was going to be all that effective, for one. I also thought that we needed more significant grade reversals, rather than discrete drains.


But that's moot, at this point.


That section of trail has too many challenges and I'd agree that it probably isn't worth saving as-is. It's on a north slope in a more sheltered drainage, so it doesn't get enough sun and wind to dry things out. Those seeps are insidious this time of year, and keep that section of trail sloppy while the whole rest of the place can be in perfect riding shape, so that climb continues to get hammered by use and torn up while the rest of the trails encourage people to use them.


Rerouting the trail higher on the slope (beginning the climb earlier on the left-hand bend around the ridge?) and building LOTS of grade reversals into the climb as it traverses the slope would probably be the best solution so we don't have to keep revisiting this section every single springtime. Where to reconnect it is a good question. At least after that rock-armored spot that also seems to remain muddy all the time in spite of it, is what I think.

[mtbikernate]

Snake creek is fine. I have no issues doing it with a single speed. It's not that hard. Besides if your not challenged when you ride you'll never get better.


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You miss the point. I love technical trails and I love a challenge. That spot on the trails does not jive with how the trails are "supposed" to be. Schoen is "supposed" to be the most difficult out there. But it isn't. In part because that Snake Creek climb is a mess and the attempts to repair it always wind up making it more difficult. Then, when we "think" we've got it, things finally dry out to the point that we can't REALLY see if the repairs have fixed the problem or not, and we have to wait until the next spring to find out, and oh, it didn't work.

[Raleighguy29]

You miss the point. I love technical trails and I love a challenge. That spot on the trails does not jive with how the trails are "supposed" to be. Schoen is "supposed" to be the most difficult out there. But it isn't. In part because that Snake Creek climb is a mess and the attempts to repair it always wind up making it more difficult. Then, when we "think" we've got it, things finally dry out to the point that we can't REALLY see if the repairs have fixed the problem or not, and we have to wait until the next spring to find out, and oh, it didn't work.

. Fair enough.


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[MikeHufhand]

Yep, the back channel work on Snake has not worked very well.  That's how trail building goes sometimes. Sometimes your solution works sometimes it doesn't and you go back to the drawing board.  I can't get behind a reroute at this point because I don't think the armoring/drainage solutions have been executed as well as we can do it.  Let's try some different strategies like fully armored or better armored sections with bigger more flowing grade reversals, not abrupt channels. The problem or risk you take with a reroute is that you may just trade one challenging area for the next.  I'll be out there tomorrow morning with a rhino to move dirt and rock. Join me if you like. 8am


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[jasonhilt]

Absolutely tore up.  Snake Creek isn't passable along with quite a few other places. 
Still, people think it's a good idea to go hiking, running and riding on mud trails.

I wouldn't even think of riding FT. Ben till Thursday.  With more rain coming today and possible tomorrow, it's going to be quite awhile before the trails dry out.

[Trigger]

Walked up LC to check out Snake Creek climb.  Wet, muddy and totally unridable.  Back side after log-over is eroding away and not ridable as well.  This section will need a lot of work when it dries out.  Walked a couple miles on the SC and while it has plenty of muddy spots, the only unridable area was the root climb just after the concrete pipe.  Looks yellowish now and should be green by Thursday.  Wish people would just use common sense and stay off the LC for a while...

[tomc]

Is there a work session tonight?

[MikeHufhand]

Gonna head out to LC to do some work tonight.  Be at the LC gravel trailhead at 6ish if you can swing it.


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[MikeHufhand]

Thanks Adim X, the crew has worked very hard on Snake Creek. Infact, we've all been bitten a few times!

And speaking of the Snake, were ON for tonight! Meet at the LC gravel trailhead between 530 and 6pm. Plenty of options. If the storms come, we'll retreat to Triton earlier![emoji4]


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[jasonhilt]

Weather permitting meet at the Lawrence Creek gravel parking lot at 6.
No work if it's raining.  I'll post if it's cancelled due to incoming storms.