//Trail Status mouse over Java // Interesting article!

Author Topic: Interesting article!  (Read 2329 times)

Scoop

  • Training wheels on
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Interesting article!
« on: November 07, 2013, 08:30:55 PM »
I saw this link on here a few weeks ago but then it disappeared! Thought it was rather insightful.http://betterride.net/blog/2013/mountain-bikers-has-imba-lost-its-soul-become-too-powerful/. I wonder how many other people have thought this same thing!

mtbikernate

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 648
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting article!
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 11:43:40 PM »
It probably disappeared because it's an inflammatory topic and likely stirred up some emotions.  I've seen similar topics on other forums over the years and they rarely end well. 


This article is being discussed in a lot of places right now, especially in light of a lot of the Sedrama that's been going on for the past several years in Sedona, AZ. 





Doe

  • HMBA-IMBA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 191
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting article!
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2013, 07:52:20 AM »
I find this topic very interesting as well and would like to think that we could have an intelligent discussion about it here.

Raleighguy29

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 541
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting article!
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2013, 07:57:53 AM »
I've read this before. I get his email news letters. I can see his point from both sides  I'm with you for. I hope we can have a adult discussion on this.  A big hope. 
Tubes we don't need no stinking tubes!!

David Kuehnen

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
  • HMBA-IMBA member
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting article!
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2013, 08:41:20 AM »
What I took away is that some people who make a living at supporting mountain biking are upset that IMBA is a competitor.   That is to say a small percentage of mountain bike trail users are primarily upset about IMBA being part of the "for profit" side of mountain biking.   


This article,  as Nate points out, may be apt in a specific region of the country, but here in central Indiana, I an not seeing these issues.
David Kuehnen, PE

2019

FHSP    - 16 hr
TRTP.     - 8 hr

quadracer12

  • Training wheels on
  • *
  • Posts: 40
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting article!
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2013, 10:49:07 AM »
One of the reply comments was from a for profit trail builder. He was upset that the local IMBA rep (like we are getting) was funneling all the pay jobs to IMBA's builder Trail Solutions. Time will tell.

As long as MTBing is growing and IMBA is defending us I will support it.

Paul_Arlinghaus

  • Paul Arlinghaus
  • Global Moderator
  • Should be riding....
  • *****
  • Posts: 3013
  • Follow me to the next work session at Town Run
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting article!
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2013, 11:55:24 AM »
HMBA is currently managing an RTP grant at Southwestway Park. We are using Sectrum Trail Designs (Alex Stewart) and not IMBA Trail Solutions.  We also have Upland Trail designs (Alex Harrington) in Indiana. He is working a project at Wapehani.  HMBA has not been directed to only use IMBA trail solutions.  And my main concern is having enough pro trail building resources it the Midwest to keep up with the projects in queue. 

There is an organization call the Professional Trail Builders Association (PTRA) which Spectrum Trail Designs as well as IMBA trail solutions (Upland is an new company and will likely apply for membership at the next annual meeting) are members. Dealing with Non Profit IMBA Trail Solutions vs. for profit trail builder concerns is an issue for the PTRA to deal with. 

IMBA and its chapters are creating a lot of work for professional trail builders.  While IMBA trail solutions gets some of this work, there are also a lot of non IMBA trail solutions trail builders getting work thanks to IMBA.


The other topic in the post was the age old IMBA trail sanitation rant.  One big challenge for HMBA-IMBA is that we try to advocate for all mountain bikers.  Beginners thru advanced riders; 26" to 29ers; single speeders to 3/10; cross country, down hill, free ride, skill park, etc...; racers, long distance riders, technical rider, fitness riders; etc.........

The opinions of what makes a perfect trail are widely ranging.  As a trail builder I have gotten complaints about every HMBA trail, including Green Valley at BCSP.

Add in that Land Managers often provide restrictions on what can or can't be done, that geography and demographics of an area often present limitations, there are liability concerns, etc...

And that there have been, and will always be, sustainable trails built that aren't as fun or challenging as the could be, whether that is from a low bid trail building company or inexperience volunteers.

I see small pockets of riders who think more trails should be built to their expectations.  I get complaints about difficult trails being too hard just as much as trails being too easy.  The internet allows these small groups to complain loudly and since there is no requirement to be factually correct on the internet, there is a lot of BS being thrown at those working very hard to build trails. 

It is very difficult to build mountain bike trails on public land without designing them to be sustainable.  But sustainable trails can be very difficult.  Too often it is protrayed that trails are easy because IMBA's sustainability guidelines force them to be easy.  This is not the case.  The reality is that there are more beginner and intermediate riders than there are expert riders.  So we need to build a lot of beginner and intermediate friendly trails if we want our sport to grow.  That of course doesn't mean that we aren't going to build hard trails and continue to push the envelope for building fun trails of all difficulty levels.


Here is a counter Better Ride Blog.

http://mountainbikegeezer.com/2013/11/critiquing-gene-hamiltons-critique-of-imba/






HMBA: Director of Trail Development / Secretary

mtbikernate

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 648
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting article!
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2013, 12:25:17 PM »
IME, and IMO, most folks complaining about IMBA's guidelines resulting in sanitization are really complaining about other problems and IMBA is a convenient scapegoat.


Issues like land manager requirements, cost, time, the available pool of volunteers (both the number of volunteers as well as having builders with the skillset to MAKE technical stuff to begin with), and the number of folks with the skills to actually ride the super difficult stuff seem to be the actual reasons in most cases.


I can't count the number of times that techy B-lines are built/offered as part of the trail design that get ridden so infrequently that they grow over and are forgotten for the sake of the almighty lap time.

Doe

  • HMBA-IMBA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 191
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting article!
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2013, 12:48:17 PM »
Excellent input everyone, thanks!

mtbspec

  • Training wheels on
  • *
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting article!
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2013, 01:04:47 PM »
What kind of monster do you have to be to complain about Green Valley?

meech

  • HMBA-IMBA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting article!
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2013, 04:48:42 PM »
It's too wet for a Gila monster.

Draggon

  • HMBA-IMBA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 76
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting article!
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2013, 10:45:18 AM »
What kind of monster do you have to be to complain about Green Valley?

Touché, good sir!   8) ;D

Raleighguy29

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 541
    • View Profile
Re: Interesting article!
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2013, 04:17:13 PM »
What kind of monster do you have to be to complain about Green Valley?

Touché, good sir!   8) ;D
and with that how could you hate any if the trails in bcsp
Tubes we don't need no stinking tubes!!

 

Important Links

Join HMBA

 

Calendar

 

Trail Guide

 

Links