//Trail Status mouse over Java // Endurance race

Author Topic: Endurance race  (Read 3390 times)

Scoop

  • Training wheels on
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Endurance race
« on: October 21, 2013, 06:05:33 PM »
Just wondering how many people out there would be interested in a endurance race, say a 100K. I know an awesome course around Hoosier National and yellow wood state forests could be put together. Maybe if we show the promoters there really is a lot of local interest it might get one of their attention. Plus I'm sure there are a lot of out of state people that would come for an endurance race here also.!

Steve Smith

  • Training wheels on
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2013, 07:02:06 PM »
Gravel Grovel  November 30, 2013~ The Sub-9 Gravel Grovel is a self-supported, solo riding excursion through the beautiful hills of Indiana's Hoosier National Forest and beyond.  Beginning and ending at the Midwest Trail Ride Horseman's Camp in Norman, Indiana, participants encounter a combination of gravel forest roads, some paved roads and old double track jeep trail creating "mother nature's cyclocross course".  Riders choose from a 62 mile, self-supported race or a shortened 25 mile fun ride.
Are you thinking of using trails only?

Scoop

  • Training wheels on
  • *
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2013, 08:19:36 PM »
It should have a mix of trails and fire road/gravel. But definitely not something that a cyclocross bike would be good for.  ;)

Fett

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 1405
    • View Profile
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2013, 09:18:21 PM »
I agree. The Gravel Grovel is a great event but does not really incorporate any trail into the race unless you count Combs road and is clearly faster on a cross bike than a mountain bike. It is not a mountain bike race.  I think a big problem to organizing a race is like this, is that to make it a great mountain bike race, you would need to incorporate Hoosier National trails (Nebo, Hickory, etc) and currently Hoosier National requires IMHO an unreasonable percentage of the event revenue as a fee that makes it unattractive to promoters. I hope that can change because it would be great.
To be an epic event, it should incorporate BCSP (Whose dance card is about full for events),  Yellowwood (great potential) and Hoosier National (currently problematic).  I hope these can be overcome to make a great event. Maybe Tania or Paul can shed some light on how the problem is overcome for the Death March.
Need a home mortgage?  Let me help.   Click here for more info: www.ruoff.com/jefffetterer

Bentcrank

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 973
    • View Profile
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2013, 08:28:46 AM »
I'm in

john7722

  • Guest
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2013, 09:38:42 AM »
A Mtb Bike Specific stage race in Hoosier National would undoubtedly be a big Draw. Look how far people come to Do the Death March & Gravel Grovel.

bboehman

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 357
    • View Profile
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2013, 11:35:36 AM »
I am in, and John I have wondered about a stage race as well down there. Even using Valley Branch and Gnawbone to help them make some money as well and get people to those places to see what they have to offer. So many properties down there that it could be a lot of fun! My vote is anytime schools are on breaks;)!

chuckdlou

  • HMBA-IMBA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 99
    • View Profile
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2013, 12:10:54 PM »
i believe the death march is exempt from the HNF fee because there is no set route requiring riders to use the trails...they can't charge us for the use of the roads as they are county...

Fett

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 1405
    • View Profile
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2013, 01:26:49 PM »
i believe the death march is exempt from the HNF fee because there is no set route requiring riders to use the trails...they can't charge us for the use of the roads as they are county...

Thanks, Charles. That is what I was guessing.
Need a home mortgage?  Let me help.   Click here for more info: www.ruoff.com/jefffetterer

tjuillerat

  • Should be riding....
  • ***
  • Posts: 1058
    • View Profile
    • Midwest Women's Mountain Bike Clinic
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2013, 01:35:22 PM »
i believe the death march is exempt from the HNF fee because there is no set route requiring riders to use the trails...they can't charge us for the use of the roads as they are county...


I pay out the booty to the HNF for the Death March because we use Callahan and the Fire Tower.  We not only have to pay the permitting fees, but also for every participant to have a one-day HNF pass.   If I took these two check points out I wouldn't have to pay or go thru their permitting. 

I avoid those fees for the Gravel Grovel by purposely opting to not use Nebo or any of the Hickory Ridge trails.  Combs Rd is technically a county road and therefor not included in the HNF permitting process. 


It's also why we pulled out of the HNF for the Breakdown.  It would have cost us nearly $10,000 even if all we wanted was to add Nebo one way.  They (and it really comes down to one or two folks) are pretty ridiculous in how they are now (beginning in 2012) "interpreting" the event permit process. 


It may sound fun to include all the other properties into one big race, but there are a lot of logistics to linking them and getting the proper insurance and coverage to do it.  I'm guessing the properties will also want a cut of the proceeds.   To be honest, this is just one of the many reasons Sub-9 has not done (and will probably never do) an endurance race linking all these properties together.  (Sorry Huff)   


And sure - you could do a race that links up BCSP and Yellowwood, but then again - that's already being done... it's just not a timed event as far as we're concerned.  ;-)
« Last Edit: October 22, 2013, 01:45:29 PM by tjuillerat »
Tell me and I forget; show me and I remember; involve me and I understand.
       - Anonymous

chuckdlou

  • HMBA-IMBA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 99
    • View Profile
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2013, 05:26:13 PM »
well, i was wrong then wasn't i ;) not a first...

holzhaus

  • HMBA-IMBA Member
  • Should be riding....
  • *
  • Posts: 757
    • View Profile
    • http://www.DINOseries.com
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2013, 09:49:11 AM »
Yep, what Tania Said :)


DINO wanted to bring the USARA Adventure Race National Championship into HNF, but their absurd interpretation of the fees would have meant essentially I would work without pay for hundreds of man hours. Sorry, being a full time event director is my primary means of supporting my family and that's just not going to work. We need a variety of people to keep reminding Hoosier National Forest that they are losing quite a bit of potential event income, and needlessly restricting use of their property.


I have been looking for an epic endurance race (for both MTB and running) for several years now and haven't found the right fit. It would also take a partnership with a group that has a small army of volunteers to man aid stations and handle other logistics on such a large course. I don't know that HMBA would be the right group, being busy with BCB and a whole bunch of other activities more specifically related to trails and advocacy.

john7722

  • Guest
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2013, 10:22:56 AM »
Who do we specifically need to contact to remind them of the" Lost Revenue Potential"' ? 
In stead of driving hundreds of miles & out of state, Hotel, Food ect,  to participate in these types of races, I would rather give my money to You Brian, Tania, Don ,Ect.

Paul_Arlinghaus

  • Paul Arlinghaus
  • Global Moderator
  • Should be riding....
  • *****
  • Posts: 3011
  • Follow me to the next work session at Town Run
    • View Profile
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2013, 02:35:26 PM »
As HMBA works with State Forests in Yellowwood, we are looking at how to (in the long term) support long distance races and rain/shine races. 

Connectivity is an issue. And we hope to have a permanent connection between BCSP and Yellowwood, and then connect Yellowwood to HNF. 

Using HNF is currently very difficult and using multiple properties always adds complexity and cost. 

Also, another tough question is what time of year would the event be held. It couldn't conflict with existing midwest endurance events and local mtb events.  If using trails open to horses, then it may be hard to get access in Summer or Fall. 

BCSP is a good place to start the event, but it is very difficult to avoid conflicting with the many other groups holding events in the Park.

While HMBA is factoring this type of event into our long range trail plans, I don't expect HMBA to have the band width to put on a 100 mile race.  Someone very dedicated to making it happen would have to be ready to put 100's of hours of work over the course of a couple years to make it happen.  Unfortunenly those who want it the most are typically too busy racing to make it happen.


HMBA: Director of Trail Development / Secretary

Steve Smith

  • Training wheels on
  • *
  • Posts: 32
    • View Profile
Re: Endurance race
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2013, 06:43:59 PM »
Who do we specifically need to contact to remind them of the" Lost Revenue Potential"' ? 
In stead of driving hundreds of miles & out of state, Hotel, Food ect,  to participate in these types of races, I would rather give my money to You Brian, Tania, Don ,Ect.
They don't care, so don't waste your time. Been there done that.

 

Important Links

Join HMBA

 

Calendar

 

Trail Guide

 

Links