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Author Topic: Forum Issues  (Read 20592 times)

Bentcrank

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #30 on: September 03, 2013, 01:25:34 PM »
Something I think needs to be said. I think HMBA has done a great job with getting trails built and maintained in Indiana. I do not want to discount any of this. That is part of why I have made the comments above. I really don't want to see all the hard work go to waste. I think the organization has grown way more than what they thought it could have. This shows all the hard work done by some people.

But, I want to remind all of those in charge. I have seen statements and suggestions that would make people think that we would have no trails to ride with out HMBA. I agree that HMBA had helped make some great trail, but not all trail out there. There would still be trails to ride if HMBA never existed. Please don't let any ego's step up on to any higher places and lets all stay on the same ground. Continue to join forces and help improve the riding that is available for everyone to enjoy. We all need to be good trail stewards. We have enough enemies out there that we don't need to be fighting with each other.

mtbikernate

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #31 on: September 03, 2013, 01:43:42 PM »
That's called censorship, David.


Private organizations have every right to decide how they want their websites to be used.  Call it whatever you want but it doesn't change anything.  HMBA can choose what purpose it wishes its website and online forums to serve.


If publicly-visible rants and criticisms are hurting the organization, then the club SHOULD take efforts to eliminate that content from its own website. 

People need to learn that what they put on the internet is there FOREVER (especially if someone screenshots it before it's edited) and can and will be used against you (or someone else) whenever possible.  Innocuous things I have said online have been used against someone else in court in the past.  That kind of stuff is no joke.  Too many people inadequately filter themselves online and the club has to protect itself.

Kswiss

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #32 on: September 03, 2013, 02:31:37 PM »
And so I kindly step back, will not feed the trolls.  See you guys in a week or two once everyone gets their heads on straight.

Hocky

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2013, 02:44:21 PM »
Chances are that if you start locking the forum down and over moderating, someone will start another forum that could become the one to go to for indy mtb.  I would be careful.

RT

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2013, 03:12:03 PM »
I have crunched the data.  The Percentage of forum users who are HMBA members is 19.5%.  Also, over half of HMBA members do not have a user account on the HMBA forum.

Wow!  4/5's of the posters in here aren't HMBA...hmmmm...I see a problem with that!
Also, I'll bet ya the % of people who race on the trails in Indiana that are HMBA members is less than 19.5%. Who wants to bet me on that one?  Now that's sad folks!!



getsometrail

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2013, 03:16:20 PM »
I have crunched the data.  The Percentage of forum users who are HMBA members is 19.5%.  Also, over half of HMBA members do not have a user account on the HMBA forum.

Wow!  4/5's of the posters in here aren't HMBA...hmmmm...I see a problem with that!
Also, I'll bet ya the % of people who race on the trails in Indiana that are HMBA members is less than 19.5%. Who wants to bet me on that one?  Now that's sad folks!!
It is sad and what this says to me is that the forum has little effect on HMBA / IMBA membership.  Which like I said before has a much greater and more positive impact on mountain biking than any forum post.
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Paul_Arlinghaus

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2013, 06:26:27 PM »
Quote
The opinionated posters are the ones who post a lot. A lot of posts help keep the forum alive. Just look at what the KYMBA forum used to be. It was huge, then they didn't like some opinions (I am not talking about posts that really do need to be deleted) and started banning users. Site is no longer alive and I feel the KYMBA membership hurts because of it, if there really is still a KYMBA.
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Bentcrank

About 8 years ago HMBA's and KYMBA's forum where in the same place.  A small number of poster used the forums for entertainment or to try to push their personal agenda's.  HMBA began to closely moderate the HMBA forum and KYMBA did not.  Now the HMBA forum is much more active.  The KYMBA forum allowed a few people to drive off the majority, and when they started to moderate, it was tool late.

In another post you state,

Quote
But, I want to remind all of those in charge. I have seen statements and suggestions that would make people think that we would have no trails to ride with out HMBA. I agree that HMBA had helped make some great trail, but not all trail out there. There would still be trails to ride if HMBA never existed. Please don't let any ego's step up on to any higher places and lets all stay on the same ground. Continue to join forces and help improve the riding that is available for everyone to enjoy. We all need to be good trail stewards. We have enough enemies out there that we don't need to be fighting with each other.
Quote
 
Quote

No one in authority of HMBA has stated that HMBA is solely responsible for trails in Indiana.  We purposely separate HMBA trails from other trails in Indiana so that there is little confusion.  Yes Ferdinand is unique.  You and others had trails there prior to HMBA, but the DNR's view is that Ferdinand is covered under HMBA's MOU.  I have tried hard to support those at Ferdinand with out stepping on anyone's toes down there. 

Someone stated that there is a disclaimer that what is said on the forum doesn't necessarily reflect HMBA's official views, but here we have a mountain biker taking the comments of a forum poster to be the official view of HMBA.  If mountain bikers hold HMBA accountable for anything said on this forum, how do we expect the general public to do any differently.

HMBA has been moderating its forum for about 8 years.  In that time HMBA has grown and had a lot of great access victories.  What has happened this year, is that some of those who have helped me moderate our forum have had other life related issues reduce the amount of time they can spend helping moderate the forum.  I too have been very busy and as a result several threads were not moderated early on to prevent threads that are divisive to the mtb community. 

Being a moderator sucks. It isn't fun and we end up being blamed for letting things go to far and then blamed for trying to regain order. 

Whether HMBA moderates or not isn't the question.  The question, is can we do things to reduce the burden of our moderators.  The real concern isn't whether the HMBA forum is moderated or not. It is should HMBA even have a forum.  All the advice I get from successful 501 (c) (3) organizations is to get ride of a public forum.
 
If KYMBA is the example of what happens when a forum isn't active, then lets talk about KYMBA.  One of the first purpose built mtb trails is about to be built in Kentucky.  And Louisville is about to explode with a 100 mile metro trail system.  They have had a lot of success without an active forum.

HMBA: Director of Trail Development / Secretary

Raleighguy29

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2013, 08:56:43 PM »
I've been reading this thread since it was started. And after reading what every one has posted. And I think the best way to solve this issue is for us all to go get on our bikes and take a ride in the woods to clear our heads and then recovine at a later date.
Tubes we don't need no stinking tubes!!

deanarammalamma

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2013, 06:34:13 AM »
I've been reading this thread since it was started. And after reading what every one has posted. And I think the best way to solve this issue is for us all to go get on our bikes and take a ride in the woods to clear our heads and then recovine at a later date.

THE best post of this entire thread...

Bentcrank

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2013, 08:30:48 AM »
Quote
If KYMBA is the example of what happens when a forum isn't active, then lets talk about KYMBA.  One of the first purpose built mtb trails is about to be built in Kentucky.  And Louisville is about to explode with a 100 mile metro trail system.  They have had a lot of success without an active forum.

and yet I see nothing or hear little about them to make me want to become a member. Not what I would call trying to grow the membership.

Bentcrank

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #40 on: September 04, 2013, 09:08:53 AM »
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Without the membership dollars and volunteer hours none of the trails at the top of the forum would exist.

Paul, this statement was said by someone who is listed as a global moderator. Sorry for me misunderstanding that he does not have any authority. Maybe there is part of the issue. Other than you, I have no idea who is in charge.

Ferdinand may be listed under HMBA now, but it would still be here if it was not. The trail just may not be as easy as it currently is to ride. There were other trails out there too. I am sure Gnawbone, VBR, Story, Hickory and Youngs Creek are not as happy that HMBA has done such a good job building more trail. My statement was not pointed at anyone, just trying to make sure to keep HMBA grounded.

I am done stating my opinions and concerns on this. What happens will happen. I would just like to see the group grow and continue to get more volunteers to help with all the trails. If this becomes a member only thing that is fine. I will still be here. I have received info that I am expired, but my card says I am good till 9/12. If it stays public, I will still be here too.

I did not get in to this topic because I am trying to take either side.  I don't even know who half the people making comments are or where they are from. I am just taking my side and voicing my concerns. Paul, I know you do a lot of work and put in a lot of time and I thank you for that.

Bentcrank - aka Eric Gadlage IMBA/HMBA member #228828
« Last Edit: September 04, 2013, 09:10:48 AM by Bentcrank »

RiverBankRider

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #41 on: September 04, 2013, 10:08:28 AM »
I have a slightly different take and would support increasing the forum, knowing that this is a stage for recruitment. If only 20% of users are members, then lets increase the usage and use the forum as a viable platform to boost membership.  Limiting access reduces our communication with other mountain bikers to messaging on the trails... when riders don't have access to their credit cards or the imba membership website.  Most of my typical trailside conversations with people I don't know are really small talk about the trail and not "hey, have you paid your HMBA dues yet?"

tony

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #42 on: September 04, 2013, 10:21:47 AM »
I've been reading this thread since it was started. And after reading what every one has posted. And I think the best way to solve this issue is for us all to go get on our bikes and take a ride in the woods to clear our heads and then recovine at a later date.

THE best post of this entire thread...

No sh!t!

MikeHufhand

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #43 on: September 04, 2013, 11:23:48 AM »


While this may be a valid statement for most of the trails listed above, Ferdinand has existed long before anything to do with HMBA was involved. French Lick paid to have their trails.



Just for the record, there was a point in Indiana mountain biking history where there was no legal mountain biking on DNR State Lands.  No State Parks or State Forests.  The Indy Spokebreakers , the precurser to HMBA, set out to change that.   We started a petition, led largely by Paul Lin, Monica O'Brien, myself and others, we gave then Governor O'Bannon 2500 signatures with the purpose to open up State lands to mountain biking.  The Indiana Bicycling Coalition led by Connie Schmucker and Rich Ries were instrumental as well.  From that effort 5 State Forests were opened up to mountain biking, with Ferdinand SF being one of them.  No trails were purpose built, so the riding experience wasn't top notch, but it was a very important start.

Bentcrank

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #44 on: September 04, 2013, 01:27:01 PM »


While this may be a valid statement for most of the trails listed above, Ferdinand has existed long before anything to do with HMBA was involved. French Lick paid to have their trails.



Just for the record, there was a point in Indiana mountain biking history where there was no legal mountain biking on DNR State Lands.  No State Parks or State Forests.  The Indy Spokebreakers , the precurser to HMBA, set out to change that.   We started a petition, led largely by Paul Lin, Monica O'Brien, myself and others, we gave then Governor O'Bannon 2500 signatures with the purpose to open up State lands to mountain biking.  The Indiana Bicycling Coalition led by Connie Schmucker and Rich Ries were instrumental as well.  From that effort 5 State Forests were opened up to mountain biking, with Ferdinand SF being one of them.  No trails were purpose built, so the riding experience wasn't top notch, but it was a very important start.

Then I stand corrected.  Several of us were riding there for years before that, with the approval of the land manager. Most trails are still not purpose built.

 

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