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Author Topic: Forum Issues  (Read 15635 times)

Draggon

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2013, 03:24:13 PM »
I understand both sides of the issue, and I do not pretend to have a snappy, fix-all answer.  These are just a couple of thoughts that occurred to me as I perused this thread over the last couple days...

I don't know if it's technically possible (I'd be shocked if it's not), but rather than a direct link to the forum, perhaps that link takes you to a page with a big disclaimer clearly indicating that all posts in the forum are solely the opinions of the posters and not of the HMBA.  The page would require an "I understand and agree" click before allowing forum access.  I personally would not mind the extra click each time I visit, and it seems it would settle any concern of forum posts being misinterpreted as HMBA positions or statements.

Another alternative would be to close down the "official" HMBA.org forums and start another, unofficial Indiana mountain biking forum that just happens to love the HMBA and discusses it frequently while pointing new forum users over to the official HMBA.org site for current news, membership, and advocacy information.  There are probably free options available, but to do it right, we'd probably want some server space, some forum software and some administrators.

If the second alternative were to occur, I would recommend a general sprucing up of the HMBA.org home page as it is currently a bit of a mess (just an opinion, not trying to hurt anyone's feelings).

mtbikernate

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2013, 06:24:49 PM »
I would recommend a general sprucing up of the HMBA.org home page as it is currently a bit of a mess (just an opinion, not trying to hurt anyone's feelings).


It is well known and a few folks are working together on a complete reworking of the main site.


We want a real, functioning calendar, and we want a back end that isn't broken (as the current one is).  I am involved to help build a comprehensive trail guide to help folks find trails in the state, and not just HMBA-managed ones.  I intend to make use of mtbproject in part, but also have some functionality unique to our site.  But before I can do any of that, the rest of the site needs to be addressed and that is a work in progress.


Since the forums are actually independent of the main page software, whatever happens to them will be independent of what occurs on the main page.




jim_michaux

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2013, 08:01:41 PM »
seriously?!  ;D


good gawd.


ain't nothing like too much success leading to failure...to ruin a good thing. 


toxic. 


how sad.


as groucho marx once said, and i'm paraphrasing...i don't want to be part of any group/club that would have me as a member.


!!!!!


freddie maybe sums it up best....


"get on your bikes and ride"


that is all.


the end.




Jeff Blum

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2013, 08:03:38 PM »
as groucho marx once said, and i'm paraphrasing...i don't want to be part of any group/club that would have me as a member.

We don't want you here, so pay your dues.

 ;)

Guy

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2013, 06:08:59 AM »
I'd just like to thank HMBA for providing this forum all these years. I live and do volunteer trail work in the Versailles/ Muscatatuck area and the forum has been a valuable tool to reach out to bikers that use these trails. Everyone is so dependent on the web these days and this is the go to place for up to date info about Indiana trails.
   I post trail build days and anything else that riders might be interested to hear about the parks. There are many visitors who live farther away that heard good things, and read about the improvements being made on the trails from this forum and had to check it out for themselves.

I know that there are probably not a lot of HMBA members in this area, and even fewer members from out of state that ride here. Heck, the Tuck is not even a official HMBA trail system, but has still been supported and encouraged to prosper by HMBA over the years, and by the example of fine trail building that we set.

Anyway, I understand that you have to pay the bills and if the forum gets shut down to all those wankers that are too cheap to pay a few bucks to use it, so be it. It was good while it lasted. Thanks.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 06:23:22 AM by Guy »

Steve King

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2013, 09:54:34 AM »
Quote
Without the membership dollars and volunteer hours none of the trails at the top of the forum would exist.

Paul, this statement was said by someone who is listed as a global moderator. Sorry for me misunderstanding that he does not have any authority. Maybe there is part of the issue. Other than you, I have no idea who is in charge.

Ferdinand may be listed under HMBA now, but it would still be here if it was not. The trail just may not be as easy as it currently is to ride. There were other trails out there too. I am sure Gnawbone, VBR, Story, Hickory and Youngs Creek are not as happy that HMBA has done such a good job building more trail. My statement was not pointed at anyone, just trying to make sure to keep HMBA grounded.

I am done stating my opinions and concerns on this. What happens will happen. I would just like to see the group grow and continue to get more volunteers to help with all the trails. If this becomes a member only thing that is fine. I will still be here. I have received info that I am expired, but my card says I am good till 9/12. If it stays public, I will still be here too.

I did not get in to this topic because I am trying to take either side.  I don't even know who half the people making comments are or where they are from. I am just taking my side and voicing my concerns. Paul, I know you do a lot of work and put in a lot of time and I thank you for that.

Bentcrank - aka Eric Gadlage IMBA/HMBA member #228828

Sorry I didn't state this quite right or accurately.  Actually wasn't met to be HMBA specific statement.  The point I was trying to make is that, if it wasn't for us mountain bikers volunteering our time and dollars, mountain biking as we know it wouldn't exist in this area.  Even trails on private property see us mountain bikers helping out, like Gnawbonelefty's volunteer efforts at Gnawbone Camp.  BTW, thanks Gawbonelefty, I always like riding there!

DeepVI

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2013, 02:59:34 PM »
I understand both sides of the issue, and I do not pretend to have a snappy, fix-all answer.  These are just a couple of thoughts that occurred to me as I perused this thread over the last couple days...

I don't know if it's technically possible (I'd be shocked if it's not), but rather than a direct link to the forum, perhaps that link takes you to a page with a big disclaimer clearly indicating that all posts in the forum are solely the opinions of the posters and not of the HMBA.  The page would require an "I understand and agree" click before allowing forum access.  I personally would not mind the extra click each time I visit, and it seems it would settle any concern of forum posts being misinterpreted as HMBA positions or statements.

Another alternative would be to close down the "official" HMBA.org forums and start another, unofficial Indiana mountain biking forum that just happens to love the HMBA and discusses it frequently while pointing new forum users over to the official HMBA.org site for current news, membership, and advocacy information.  There are probably free options available, but to do it right, we'd probably want some server space, some forum software and some administrators.

If the second alternative were to occur, I would recommend a general sprucing up of the HMBA.org home page as it is currently a bit of a mess (just an opinion, not trying to hurt anyone's feelings).


Seems like some good alternatives to me.  I have to say the HMBA forum has been a great tool to gain knowledge of the area when I found out my family and I were moving to Indy.    Forums will always have supposed internet "tough guys", some really are trolls, some just don't seem to get their thoughts across without looking like a-holes.  Once you meet them, you gain a different perspective on what they post.  To promote the local club in Tucson, the local advocacy group held monthly group rides for both members and non-members.  They also held a few parties through out the year.  It was a good way to promote the club and rider unity.  Once you put a face to a user name, it takes a little more to get into an honest internet brawl.  Maybe once a month/quarter HMBA could sponsor group rides.  Throw up a pop-up or banner with the HMBA logo at the TH, generate some interest in the organization.  Another thing the group rides did was help out some of the less skilled/experienced riders.  Nothing make you a better rider than riding with those better than you.  Closing down or even limiting the forum to just members would be a massive mistake in my mind.  Of all the "users" of this forum, how many are active?  I'm sure there's more than a fair share of users that signed up just to visit Indiana and get some info on the trails. 
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Gochenour

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2013, 05:32:05 PM »
I totally understand where Paul is coming from, and I myself am not exactly sure of what the best route to go is. I feel like the forum is in a great place now, besides the occasional drama that pursues. I feel there must be an easier fix, and Paul could be taking it in the right way. He never stated that the forum would be off limits to all non HMBA members. He said he might be limiting them to outsiders. Moderation and censorship is always needed, if you don't have either things will constantly get out of hand. No one likes to hang around a environment plagued by people that put others down and constantly start pointless disputes.

Like I said I understand why he is thinking about doing so, and respect it. I also feel that there might be an outcome that will make everyone happy.

If all else fails, join the HMBA if you already haven't. There's really no excuse not to join and support the HMBA if you're passionate about cycling, live in Indiana, and frequent these forums.

If the second alternative were to occur, I would recommend a general sprucing up of the HMBA.org home page as it is currently a bit of a mess (just an opinion, not trying to hurt anyone's feelings).

You're not hurting anyone's feelings. This is something that we already realize and we're currently working behind the scenes on something that isn't a "mess or broken." I assure the future changes will be very organized and eye appealing!
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tjuillerat

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2013, 05:45:21 PM »
Quote
Maybe once a month/quarter HMBA could sponsor group rides.  Throw up a pop-up or banner with the HMBA logo at the TH, generate some interest in the organization.


A great suggestion - when would you like to schedule these and where should we meet you?  :-)


There is always a lot of "HMBA should do this.. and HMBA should do that", but no one really wants to step up and take the responsibility.  Absolutely every single person on this board can stop and talk to anyone, anytime at a trail head and let them know about HMBA.  You don't need a tent, a banner or anything.  You just say "Hello.. have you heard of the HMBA?  They're the ones that are building and maintaining these trails.  You should check them out... www.hmba.org!" 


Now that's not hard - is it.  :-)


I really wanted to stay out of this one - but my point is - in the time it's taken ya'll to have 4 pages worth of griping at Paul, we could have done something positive to help the organization move forward and be more productive.


Here's another thing... HMBA memberships, along with the revenue generated from the Brown County Breakdown (which raised more than $20,000 the last two years in a row and will top over $100,000 we've brought in since we started in 2005) will eventually help pay for a part or full time staff person that can help with a lot of these things.  This person will help take the pressures off of Paul and take on a lot of things that have been lacking such as membership drives,  social events, etc.


If you want to be part of the forum, and part of the organization, and see things happen then step-up... pay the $35 and get involved.


And don't forget - if you join/renew/extend your HMBA-IMBA membership between now and the Breakdown, you automatically get entered to win that $6000 Scott (that's a nice perk for becoming a member).  You don't even have to sign up for the Breakdown although it would be really great if you did!


Cheers,
~Tania Juillerat
Sub-9 Productions
www.sub-9.com  (yeah - we started as volunteers)


www.browncountymountainbiking.com (yeah - we started this too... as volunteers)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 05:51:09 PM by tjuillerat »
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LEE3

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2013, 04:32:58 PM »

There is always a lot of "HMBA should do this.. and HMBA should do that", but no one really wants to step up and take the responsibility.  Absolutely every single person on this board can stop and talk to anyone, anytime at a trail head and let them know about HMBA.  You don't need a tent, a banner or anything.  You just say "Hello.. have you heard of the HMBA?  They're the ones that are building and maintaining these trails.  You should check them out... www.hmba.org!" 


I snipped quite a bit from the quote.... This makes me want to add another two cents.  What Tania is saying couldn't be more true.  The reason HMBA is counting on you is in my following rants...
 
I'm going to be pretty bold about the following.    HMBA is tiny and few know that!  I think it needs stressed that HMBA needs all hands on deck.   People assume HMBA is almighty and powerful because they have made such great leaps and bounds for mountain biking in the state of Indiana.   I would bet the farm that the Evansvile Mountain Bike Association could gather more riders for a bike ride than the HMBA.  Honestly, I say this with compassion, HMBA needs to make it clear that it's not huge! It's got very few members but these members are willing to make great sacrifices and achieve big things, that is it. I always hear people say they have other commitments..... GUESS WHAT!  HMBA volunteers probably put off other commitments and that is why they work so hard when they have the chance. 
 
I think the HMBA needs to be more open about how small this organization really is, maybe making people realize how badly they are needed.   
 
I think the members/users need to know that they have the right to talk and spread the word anytime they feel capable.  Ask you local bike shop if they support the HMBA?  Do they know why they sell high-end mountain bikes, porbably becasuse people have places to ride them..   
 
I think the long time HMBA members need to look at and create processes and understand where to ask for help from volunteers.  There are a lot of cyclists that have a lot to offer and don't, but they would if it was asked of them.
 
I can't believe that I've raced 6 DINO races this year and not noticed one HMBA banner or heard one shout-out on the PA system.  (not pointing at you Brian or Paul - just saying we need some teamwork)
 
I've made it a point to say something about the HMBA each time I've been in the woods for the last three months, this isn't much but it's something.
 
My best summary of this rant is to say that HMBA is not as large as it appears.  Please don't think that Paul has some powerful network of people helping him work his way through the political arena.  Paul and the volunteers I have met have never had an agenda, only the best interest of every rider in mind.  HMBA has cleared hurdles because of hardwork and scenerity, not power through numbers. Spread the word! Spread the word! Spread the word! Spread the word!

David Kuehnen

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2013, 05:08:41 PM »
Quote
I think the long time HMBA members need to look at and create processes and understand where to ask for help from volunteers.  There are a lot of cyclists that have a lot to offer and don't, but they would if it was asked of them.


Not to be flippant, but I was under the impression that this forum was one of those processes.  So often while I am out doing trail work, I get asked by riders how they can find out more trail work opportunities and be involved.  I ALWAYS direct them to this forum.




« Last Edit: September 10, 2013, 05:17:14 PM by David Kuehnen »
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LEE3

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #56 on: September 11, 2013, 12:04:29 AM »

Not to be flippant, but I was under the impression that this forum was one of those processes.  So often while I am out doing trail work, I get asked by riders how they can find out more trail work opportunities and be involved.  I ALWAYS direct them to this forum.

Hi David - I fully agree that this forum should be one of those processes. My rant was really to stress that the HMBA is not huge like the IMBA. Although having the IMBA in our corner is a fantastic tool and does help give size and strength to the political side.  (These are my words and opinions.  Not at all spoken by Paul, only what I have observed in my short time)

I think I was diving into one key point a little more than needed and never meant this to be about the forum being public or private.

Thanks!

LEE3

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #57 on: September 11, 2013, 12:43:31 AM »
Hello wanderer.  I'm going to respond within the quote in bold to make it a little easier to respond. Please note that my answers are not intended to be short or rude. I enjoy conversation, even online.

~~~~LEE3: My best summary of this rant is to say that HMBA is not as large as it appears.  Please don't think that Paul has some powerful network of people helping him work his way through the political arena.!~~~~

Just a thought....   

Maybe the HMBA should have thought about that before declaring themselves the state wide representative of mountain biking and state wide organizer of the mountain biking community in Indiana in order to chase down federal funds to spend on public property. I believe the Indy Spoke Breakers and other clubs that joined in probably did have what it took at the time. I feel the HMBA still does have what it takes on the political side.  Having the IMBA along with what I mentioned earlier, sincerity and hard work, goes a long way in smaller politics. 

I don't know, just seems more logical to be organized and capable of a such a task before announcing such things.  Not the other way around. It is nice to know how many troops you are going to need but I'm not sure that is always possible....  I think we have enough 'troops' on the political side and we probably always will have.  The hard thing to judge is the local help you will get at each trail. I'm really not sure how you can plan for local participation.   Later you mention BCSP which does get quite a bit of local help, but also a majority of the workers I have met at BCSP have not been locals.   I think it is important to remember that this sport is very young.  It's not something that you can easily build a business case around and plan for a particular headcount, especially when your headcount is coming from volunteers.

The only place the HMBA seems to be really organized is Brown County and Indy.  A few other parks managing to get some money weren't decided on by the HMBA, but by the source of the money who dictated which parks were to get the money.  Not sure you can really contribute the success of these few other trail systems to any real effort by the HMBA other then to do the minimum that was asked of them by the source of the money and then disappear. I really don't know anything about the money side.  Most of my rant is based on volunteers and hopefully building the amount of local support needed at the trail work level.

It's a big responsibility taking on a state wide position.  One of the primary goals should be to get HMBA divisions all over the state.  This doesn't seem to high a priority and so the current people in charge just end up spread thin.  The cart was put before the horse! I have been around Paul 4 times in the last 3 months (all the times I have ever met him) and each of those times his primary focus was to gain support from locals to take care of their own regions.  I'm guessing this regional support is either 1 or 2 on his list of primary goals for the HMBA.   Something I wanted to point out in my rant is that it's up to us to take care of spreading the word about HMBA and we can take care of our own trails without the help of the HMBA, but alone we don't have our foot in the door at the state level to share the statistics and show that these trails have value. The state needs info and when they have a trusted source it goes a long way. 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 10:01:30 AM by LEE3 »

Fett

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #58 on: September 11, 2013, 09:02:12 AM »
Having been on the board of HMBA in the past, I can tell you that statewide representation is one of the issues that the board has wrestled with, constantly and gives alot of thought to. Most of the available funding for trails flows out of the DNR and the decisions are made in Indy, so it sort evolved that many of the leaders of HMBA are centered around the Indianapolis area, but I can tell you that everyone in a leadership role does care about mountain biking all over the state.

When mountain bikers were invited to a meeting in 2005 (I believe) at the DNR and given access to BCSP, Versailles and O'Bannon, it had to be accepted, as this kind of opportunity was not going to come along again, even though we did not have the organzation in place.

I really think that any issues that we have right now is simply a product of our massive growth and success. Any venture that experiences the growth we have, experiences these kinds of pains. We have been truly blessed with opportunites to grow the sport that most of us are extremely passionate about.

The best way to continue to advance our sport is for all who love it to become actively involved.  We all have families and jobs, strengths and weaknesses. Use your strengths to the best of your ability with time that you have available and be endlessly positive. It is contagious.  If you see a problem, think of how to solve it, rather than bemoan the fact that we have a problem. HMBA problems are good kinds of problems. It would be worse if the problem was that noone wanted to ride and we had nowhere to do it.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2013, 10:51:35 AM by Fett »
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David Kuehnen

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Re: Forum Issues
« Reply #59 on: September 11, 2013, 09:44:03 AM »
Well said.
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