Sunday Strava Segment rider....

[Steve King]

Why dont we make the trails oneway ? Change the direction every week. I dont like it, but someone is going to get hurt. Not to mention, I am riding with my son , who is 4 , I am worried about someone smoking him. They would have to add some more trails for conectors, but with ALL the people that ride there. Just think how many times you have about bit with someone. Just saying

One way trails are boring! Yes, they are needed when there is limited mileage and alot of riders, like town run. But not at places like bcsp that has over 30 miles.
Maybe you should only let your 4 year old ride directional trails until he is old enough that it is safe for him.
In 9 years of riding, I have never, not once, run into anyone or had anyone run into me

The only time I ever had a head on collision was at Town Run, a one way trail.

[Webby]

Why dont we make the trails oneway ? Change the direction every week. I dont like it, but someone is going to get hurt. Not to mention, I am riding with my son , who is 4 , I am worried about someone smoking him. They would have to add some more trails for conectors, but with ALL the people that ride there. Just think how many times you have about bit with someone. Just saying

One way trails are boring! Yes, they are needed when there is limited mileage and alot of riders, like town run. But not at places like bcsp that has over 30 miles.
Maybe you should only let your 4 year old ride directional trails until he is old enough that it is safe for him.
In 9 years of riding, I have never, not once, run into anyone or had anyone run into me

The only time I ever had a head on collision was at Town Run, a one way trail.

  WHOOPS ! 

[ess121212]

This has been a on going problem, just look at past post. Everyone has the right to be able to ride safe on public trails. I am glade you have not been hit, but I have and come close to someone hitting me at least one time a year. By the way, Evan rides just as good as alot or better than half the vistors to the park. He is only good for around 7 miles , but he is getting alot faster. Its not the vistors I worry about it is the the Guys who know better . Just remember, Mt. biking is a family sport.

[Shark]

Sorry I worded that poorly.

It is great your kid is riding at that age, they are the future of the sport! I'm saying that not all trails will ever be 100% safe, it's the nature of the sport.

You wouldn't send a teen with a learners license to drive on i94 near chicago for the first while right? Same thing.

Maybe if the trails were straight, no hills, paved....oh wait I bet there are more accidents on the monon.... it all comes down to riding responsibly.

[gmcttr]

... it all comes down to riding responsibly.

And.......we're back to where these discussions inevitably lead. Although I do like the idea of the 48"x54" sign at the entrance to HP.

[gnawbonelefty]

Ok,  I'll post a thread encapsulation for those joining us late,

Brown county is busy,  especially on saturday and sunday  between 10am and 4pm on a fall weekend.  If you ride during these times expect to see lots of riders (responsibility)
yield to uphill riders, watch for riders coming the other way, communicate the rules of the trails.

I would also like to point out, I did two rides on sunday,  one at a crowded trail system at a social pace and had a blast,  another at an empty trail system and was able to bomb down hills with abandon and never even saw another rider.  you have a choice where and when you ride.

People get lost at brown county and the maps handed out at the gates and our sign are inadequate.
If someone has one of those maps and starts talking inquiring about a letter trail,  I show them the key on the pamphlet, and they usually have no more problems.  Plus I think your never lost in a crowd.
we used to have maps at the intersections,  but they were always rapidly outdated by new construction.  (responsibility know how to navigate before going or download a trail kml to your gps smartphone, or help anyone who seems lost,  if your not alone your not lost)

We need more miles of trails at the brown county park, this will fix many overcrowding issues.  (The plans are progressing and expect construction to start late this fall or winter). (a responsibility to get out and help)

[rpmarheine]

I have ridden trail systems all across the country. Some are not marked at all some you can't get lost on. In my experience Brown County is somewhere in the middle, well marked but potentially confusing to first timers. One of my favorite aids is trail maps at major intersections. Nothing big, say 8"x10" or so, but it helps those who don't have a map or have a map but don't know where they are on it.


I don't know how many times I have heard from local riders "oh its easy just stay on the trail and you can't get lost" only to find a tangled web of rouge trails. What is simple to the everyday rider might not be so obvious to the first timer.
 Also there is a safety concern with making sure riders know where they are in the park in case of an emergency.

[Paul_Arlinghaus]

 Lots of topics covered.
 
 The good news is that a lot of the issues discussed are due to many more people riding mountain bikes at BCSP.  The mountain bike ranks of Indiana are growing and riders from other states are coming here to ride.
 
 Some new riders are already athletic (runners, roadies, etc..) who come with strong engines but sometimes lack technical skills and an understanding of trail etiquette.  Other new riders may have no outdoor or athletic back grounds. 
I have said this many times, but I will say it again.  The most important way to engage and educate new riders is to talk to them.  The burden falls on the experience local riders to speak up and engage new riders and if needed inform them when their actions are not appropriate. If local riders are waiting for some one from Indianapolis and take care of all the issues, they will be waiting a long time.

Signage:  There are a lot of factors that go into signage.  If you put up too much info, people don’t take the time to read it.  So we have to be brief in our message.  We also have to ensure the park manager’s wishes are taken into account.  Some Park Managers want lots of signs, some don’t. 
There is an update to BCSP’s signage in process.  The Park Manager wants emergency rescue location markers.  They will be placed along the trail in strategic location with respect to search and rescue.  They will have a sticker stating to call 911 in case of emergency and have a location id.  The location id will use the Park’s letter system and the locations will be numbered.  So Locations on North Tower will be A1, A2, etc…
I will also get some more stickers on yielding.  The maps were made by Hank and Bike Jerseys.  I will see if he is able to print some more that include green valley.
On topics like signage and tree removal, I often get opposing viewpoints.  Some want me to coddle riders by removing every log and putting up so many signs that they can’t get lost.  Others want me to leave logs and be minimal on signage so riders learn how to hop logs and read a map.  I try to find the middle ground.  I rode on trails last month in N. GA that had almost no signage.  If I expected every trail to be navigable without taking a map, I might still be out there.  BCSP isn’t that big or rugged, and sometimes getting lost is part of the adventure.

Handouts:  What the gate attendants can hand out is limited for a number of reasons.  We are not the only users of the park.  If there is an mtb handout, then how about a horse barn handout, a hikers handout, a geocache hand out, etc….  It would be better to have weather proof box at the trail heads with info, but then we would need a local rider to stay on top of keeping the boxes full.
Down Hill yielding:  Again, it is up to the local riders to set a good example and educate new riders.  When a new rider gets blown off the trail by a down-hill rider wearing a local jersey.  The message is that downhill riders have the right away.  I will try to throw to gather a temporary sign for the top of HP and get it up this weekend.  Keep in mind that when you are descending, that even if the uphill rider pulls over, you still need to slow down.  You need to make sure the uphill rider knows that if you needed to that you would have stopped.  When riding in a group, the first rider has more responsibility.  If you are leading a group, you need to ensure your whole group can safely get by, or you need to stop your whole group.  Groups going down hill can be bad news.  If the first rider squeezes by an uphill rider at full speed, then he just lead his group head on into the climbing rider. 
Hikers:  We absolutely want hikers to feel comfortable on our trails.  Anyone telling hikers or mountain bikers otherwise is wrong.  Those hikers could easily be DNR staff, relatives of other mountain biker, etc…  Even if a hiker steps off the trail for you, slow down when passing them. 
One way trails: The trail system at BCSP was not designed to be one way.  One way trails still have plenty of user interaction issues.  I deal with aggressive passing at Town Run every year.  Riders also fell that they don’t have to be under control on one way trails, which make hiker/biker interactions worse.  Riders need to be under control of their bikes.  We have a new trail in development that may be one way specific.  But the existing trails will remain two way. 
Strava: It pisses me off to no end that Strava allows and that riders post downhill segments on busy single track trails.  It is irresponsible.  Do not post downhill segments on HMBA trails.  This is an issue I will be discussing at the IMBA world summit next week.  Keep in mind that your speed and date of riding a segment are public knowledge.  If you ride for a team or club and I can correlate your fast times to a report of reckless riding, your team shop will be notified. 
While the vast majority of riders don't read this forum, the point is that those who do, need to help HMBA welcome and educate new riders.