Hoosier Mountain Bike Association

Club News & Information (H.M.B.A.) => Advocacy => Topic started by: tjuillerat on April 04, 2012, 12:11:53 AM

Title: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on April 04, 2012, 12:11:53 AM
It's time to get organized and gather support for mountain biking in Eagle Creek Park.  A new administration brings new opportunities and we will be intensifying our efforts in the coming weeks and months with the goal of getting access and approval.
 
Did you know that HMBA proposed a professionally built and designed 6-8 mile trail system on the west side of Eagle Creek over ten years ago?  This trail system would not utilize any land in the Eagle's Crest Nature Preserve.  It would only utilize park land that currently sees little-to-no use. 
 
Stay tuned here for how to get involved.   Until then, feel free to let Mayor Ballard's office know that you support the development of mountain bike trails in Eagle Creek Park.  http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/getintouch/Pages/ContactUs.aspx (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/getintouch/Pages/ContactUs.aspx)
 
You can also join us on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTrailsInEagleCreekPark (https://www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTrailsInEagleCreekPark) to show your support. 
 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: edf on April 04, 2012, 09:20:47 AM
I was out of town on the date of the annual meeting and was unable to attend the Indianapolis advocacy meeting. Is there a plan in place to lobby the city and/or open a dialogue with groups that may oppose such trails?
Iím not familiar with the previous arguments (or the groups behind them) against the potential trails, but I had assumed it had to do with the nature preserve. But in looking at the planning documents for the park, there is still a significant chunk of property west of the preserve and north of the golf course, which is where Iím guessing the trail(s) would be located. What were the arguments against the use of this land? Was golf course expansion an issue? 
Thanks,
Ed
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on April 04, 2012, 08:34:24 PM
Update:  The previous Director of Indy Parks resigned a couple weeks ago.  We believe he was told he wasn't going to be reinstated so he should start looking for a new job.  The change in Park leadership was due to the Mayor not being happy with Indy Parks.

Mayor Ballard is very much an advocate of cycling.  While he is not a mountain biker, he does very much want to see Indianapolis increase its ranking as a bicycle friendly city. 

While I used to think that HMBA was being singled out by Indy Parks, I eventually came to realize that there was a long list of organizations and user groups who were unhappy with the way Indy Parks dealt with them. 

I do believe that the changes in Park Leadership and the Mayor's desire to see Indy become bike friendly will create the changes we need to see in Indy Park's culture. 

The previous leadership refused to even consider Eagle Creek.  I want to be very clear that HMBA is done asking nicely about Eagle Creek.  We require Eagle Creek to be on the table and see progress towards a trail master plan that includes Eagle Creek. 

The best thing those who live near Eagle Creek can do is to get involved in HMBA efforts.  Come build trails at Fort Ben, be ready for new trail construction at SWW, Got to a trail maintenance day at BCSP, etc...  Post on the Eagle creek face book page about the trail work you are doing else where.  If I have a list of active volunteers who are experienced and ready to volunteer at Eagle Creek, that will help with our efforts.

Also, please consider going to the Mayor's bike ride this Saturday.  http://pedalandpark.org/2012/03/31/mayor-ballards-spring-fever-bike-ride/ (http://pedalandpark.org/2012/03/31/mayor-ballards-spring-fever-bike-ride/)  It will be a causual pace so ride your mountain bike.  Yes, the trails will likely be dry, so you may have to pass on a trail ride to attend, but if trails at Eagle Creek are important to you, you are going to have to make some sacrifices.  Let the Mayor see a lot of riders on mountain bikes!

Also, be ready for the Indy Greenway's 5 year plan that will have public input this year.  We will need lots of mountain bikers to go to meetings, fill out surveys, etc.... 

If you wish to contact the Mayor's office asking for trails at Eagle Creek, you are free to do so.  Please remember that the Mayor is Pro Cycling and we are seeing the beginnings of the changes needed for Indianapolis to some day be a mountain bike friendly city.

Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: mtbikernate on April 05, 2012, 12:51:21 PM
I would love to get involved with this project this summer.  I wondered for years why there were no trails in that park.  I hope to be back in Indy permanently by June to help.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on April 05, 2012, 09:53:32 PM
Here is a Google Map of the proposed trailbuilding area (Eagle Creek Area L).  Rough conceptual drawings of trails have been included, but are in no way actual trail designs.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=216959764069152149610.0004bce2d096dd42bab1d&msa=0&ll=39.873385%2C-86.317778&spn=0.028424%2C0.055747 (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=216959764069152149610.0004bce2d096dd42bab1d&msa=0&ll=39.873385%2C-86.317778&spn=0.028424%2C0.055747)
 
Additional maps and topos of the area can be found on the Facebook page:
 
https://www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTrailsInEagleCreekPark#!/media/set/?set=a.267071136717664.61269.256647391093372&type=1 (https://www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTrailsInEagleCreekPark#!/media/set/?set=a.267071136717664.61269.256647391093372&type=1)
 
 
 
 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on April 12, 2012, 10:49:37 AM
Hey folks... this Saturday (4/14) is the City County Councillor Quarterly Town Hall Meeting were folks will have the opportunity to meet the new Indy Parks Director.  Several of us are planning to attend in support of mountain biking at Eagle Creek Park. 
 
This is a chance to voice a need for trails as well as some frustrations over the delay in granting access to Eagle Creek.  The purpose of this meeting is to not throw rocks at the new Director (he's on our side!), but to show a supportive and strong volunteer group who is excited to work together and move forward with this new administration.
 
Wear your HMBA shirt, or something that shows you are there to support mountain biking in IndyParks parks.  And be sure to thank them for the trails we currently ride!
 
Where: Flanner  and Buchanan Community Center  ~ 2950 N. High School Road.
When: Saturday, April 14
Time: 10:00 - 11:30 a.m.
 
I just may bring my bike for a ride after the meeting.  Hope to see others there!
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on April 14, 2012, 08:58:15 PM
Huge thanks to those who came out today for the Town Hall Meeting.  We probably had 8-10 mountain bikers present. 
 
Indy Parks is definitely aware we are knocking on their door and hopefully going forward they will continue to be as receptive as they seemed today.  There's a long road ahead, but having a good showing at these public meetings is a great start.  Indy Parks and Eagle Creek Park management both agreed that the topic of mountain biking deserves some conversations and hopefully we will see it on the agenda of an upcoming Town Hall meeting soon.
 
Please continue to show your support for mountain biking in Eagle Creek Park.  Join us on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTrailsInEagleCreekPark (https://www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTrailsInEagleCreekPark) and continue sending your encouraging letters to the Mayor.  http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/getintouch/Pages/ContactUs.aspx (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/getintouch/Pages/ContactUs.aspx)
 
 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: sdaniels on April 25, 2012, 10:39:36 AM
I  missed this thread, will the next Town Hall meeting be posted? I went ahead and sent a letter to the Mayor and would like to continue to help in anyway that I can.  Currently I am not an official member of HMBA, but will be paying my membership dues in a few weeks when a little extra money comes my way.  If there is any other way to help other than joining the facebook page and writing the mayor, please let me know! Thanks for all you do.


Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: jim_michaux on April 25, 2012, 05:16:19 PM
an email response from the city...
 
April 25, 2012
 
Dear Mr. Murren:
 
Thank you for your interest in Eagle Creek Park.  With 1,400 acres of water and 3,900 acres of forest, Eagle Creek is one of the largest city parks in the nation. It offers Indianapolis residents and visitors unique opportunities for exploration, enjoyment, and discovery of nature.
 
Sustaining Eagle Creek Park's environmental health while offering a variety of activities and amenities is a balance that Indy Parks strives to maintain.   Recently, questions related to mountain biking in Eagle Creek have been raised by members of our community, and we believe the issue is one that merits public discussion. 
 
Indy Parks staff is in the process of scheduling a listening session as a starting point for this process. Once a date and venue are finalized, Indy Parkswill provide that information via www.indy.gov/parks, and will email it directly to you and others who have inquired about the topic in recent weeks.
 
Best regards,
 
Sarah M. Taylor
Director of Constituent Services
Office of Mayor Gregory A. Ballard
City of Indianapolis
 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: sdaniels on April 26, 2012, 03:59:36 PM
I got that exact same reply when I wrote in. Must be a form letter, the good news is, a form letter means they had to respond to a large amount of letters (hopefully)!
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on April 29, 2012, 10:47:30 AM
We will be sure to keep everyone informed of the upcoming public meeting to discuss mountain biking.  It will be extremely important to have a strong showing at these public meetings.  In the mean time, join us on the Mountan Bike Trails in Eagle Creek Park Facebook page to show your support and join in the discussions.
 
https://www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTrailsInEagleCreekPark (https://www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTrailsInEagleCreekPark#!/MountainBikeTrailsInEagleCreekPark)
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on April 30, 2012, 11:27:37 AM
A new website has been created as a "clearing house" for information on mountain biking at Eagle Creek Park.
 
Go to www.eaglecreekmountainbiking.com (http://www.eaglecreekmountainbiking.com/) for all the info!
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on May 01, 2012, 09:22:34 AM
Below is an post from Indianapolis District 6 City-Councillor, Janice McHenry on the Eagles Watch Home Owners Association web site in regards to the proposed mountain bike trails at Eagle Creek Park. Councillor McHenry hosted the first Town Hall meeting a few weeks ago where it was mentioned that a public meeting would be held to begin discussions on the proposed trails.
 


Birds Desperately Need Your Help at Eagle Creek Park
Bird advocates,
I am imploring you to take two simple actions to help the birds at Eagle Creek Park.  There is a strong push by mountain bike enthusiasts to place several miles of bike trails on the west side of Eagle Creek Park.  The official trails will not enter the nature preserve but they will border the area.  There is indication that the mayor and new park director will give the go-ahead for bike trails as early as this week.  Therefore, it is imperative that you call and write the mayor now.
Step 1
Call the mayors action hotline at 327-4MAC (327-4622).  You will speak with someone who will take your message down and send to the mayor's office.  Be courteous and tell the person that you oppose mountain bike trails at Eagle Creek Park.  It can be simple as saying "I want the mayor to know that I am strongly opposed to mountain bike trails at Eagle Creek Park."  You can provide your name and phone number but it is not required.  This will take two minutes, so do it as soon as po! ssible.
Step 2
Contact the mayor by email at http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/getintouch/Pages/ContactUs.aspx (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/getintouch/Pages/ContactUs.aspx)
Enter your name and contact information and provide a bit of detail why you oppose mountain bike trails at Eagle Creek Park.
Talking points include:
    * Mountain bike trails on the west side of the park will have a significant negative impact on birds, especially those of greatest conservation concern.
    * Bike trails will conflict with the current passive recreational use of the west side by birders and other wildlife watchers.   
    * Bikes are likely to increase the spread of invasive plants into the park through seeds stuck to the tires
    * Eagle Creek Park is an Audubon Important Bird Area because of its importance to both breeding and migratory birds
    * Audubon has donated tens of thousands of dollars in money and time over many decades to support the park and the new Ornithology Center.

Please use your own words to tell the mayor why maintaining the birds at Eagle Creek Park is important to you.  It is critical that you contact the mayor this week.  Writing the mayor will take 10 minutes.  So, do it!  Do it now!
Step 3
Please reply to this email to let me know that you have contacted the mayor.  This takes 30 seconds.
Step 4
Forward this email to everyone who you think will be a bird advocate and contact the mayor.  This will take three minutes.
So, in 15 minutes time you will have taken a significant conservation stand on behalf of birds.  On behalf of the Hooded Warblers and Kentucky Warblers and other birds, THANK YOU!
Background
A map of a generic mountain bike trail at Eagle Creek is available at the link below.  Page down to the link with the map.
http://www.hmba.org/smf/index.php?topic=9864.0 (http://www.hmba.org/smf/index.php?topic=9864.0)

 
We'd like a chance to set the record straight and to debunk her "talking points".
 
"Mountain bike trails on the west side of the park will have a significant negative impact on birds, especially those of greatest   conservation concern."  There is absolutely NO scientific evidence or proof that multi-use trails in Area L would have a   significant negative impact to any plant or animal species of conservation concern.  Our opponents keep saying things like this, but they will not and cannot provide site-specific scientific evidence to back up their claims.
 
"Bike trails will conflict with the current passive recreation use of the west side by birders and other wildlife watchers".    This is correct in one sense.  Birders and other wildlife watchers are now trampling through the woods aimlessly creating rogue trails, increasing erosion and soil loss, harming vegetation, spreading invasive species and disturbing wildlife.  When well-designed trails are built, they will conflict with the current passive recreation because birders and other wildlife watchers will be discouraged from walking all over hill-and-dale in Area L.  Current research shows that when users are mostly confined to well-built and maintained trails, the surrounding environment is healthier.  The current passive recreation use in Area L is destructive.
 
"Bikes are likely to increase the spread of invasive plants into the park through seeds stuck to the tires."  Absolutely every type of outdoor recreation has the potential to increase the spread of invasive plants.  Research shows that mountain bikers are no more harmful in this regard than hikers, bird watchers or trail runners.  However, the councillor neglects to mention that mountain bikers have taken the lead in fighting invasive species at Brown County State Park, Town Run Trail Park and other places where they have built trails.  Mountain bikers take the spread of invasive species seriously, and they have donated hundreds of hours of volunteer work and money to lead the fight.  In fact, the HMBA funded the entire 2011 volunteer stilt grass control program at Brown County State Park.  What has our opposition done to fight invasive plants in Area L at Eagle Creek?
 
"Eagle Creek Park is an Audubon Important Bird Area because of its importance to both breeding and migratory birds."    Councillor, you forgot to mention to your constituents that there are currently mountain bike trails in SIX (6) Audubon Important Bird Areas statewide. Let us list them for you.  They are: Fort Harrison State Park, Harrison Crawford Forest Complex, Hoosier National Forest - Pleasant Run Unit, Hoosier National Forest - Tell City Unit, Jackson-Washington and Clark State Forests, and Potato Creek State Park.  Many areas nationwide that are Audubon IBA's have mountain biking.  Mountain biking and multi-use trails are absolutely compatible with the Audubon IBA designation.
 
"Audubon has donated tens of thousands of dollars in money and time over many decades to support the park and the new Ornithology Center."  I bet the folks at the Audubon society wouldn't be pleased to know that Area L is littered with trash including hundreds of feet of rusty fencing on the ground.  They probably also wouldn't be pleased that horribly-built rogue trails are causing harmful erosion, and that hundreds of current users simply tramp around the property with no rhyme or reason creating harm to vegetation, soil disruption and disturbing wildlife in unpredictable ways.  Did you ask the Audubon society before you decided to allow a soccer tournament with 250 teams and thousands of people to take place mere feet away from the nature preserve and a bird sanctuary?  Did you ask them before you allowed hundreds of adventure racers into the nature preserve for an event?  We didn't think so.
 
It is irresponsible of Councillor McHenry to post her biased, untrue and unproven claims on a website where proponents cannot refute or rebut her claims.  Our elected public officials should be taken to task for posting false statements or making up their mind before gathering the facts or speaking to people on both sides of an important issue that affects their  onsituents.

If you live in Councillor McHenry's district please call her office or send her an email voicing your opinions and displeasure.  Let her know that you are pro-trails, pro-mountain bike, and that you will take her stance on this matter into consideration when you vote in the next election.

Map of District 6: http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Council/PDF/District_Maps/council6preanno.pdf (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Council/PDF/District_Maps/council6preanno.pdf)

Phone/Email Contact Information: http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Council/Councillors/Biography/Pages/district_6.aspx (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Council/Councillors/Biography/Pages/district_6.aspx)

Also, everyone should still strongly consider contacting the mayor's office to tell him that you support mountain bike and multi-use   trails at Eagle Creek Park.

http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/getintouch/Pages/ContactUs.aspx (http://www.indy.gov/eGov/Mayor/getintouch/Pages/ContactUs.aspx)
 
 
***SEE EMAIL RESPONSE FROM COUNCILLOR McHENRY ON PAGE 2 OF THIS THREAD***
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: dirtetimo13 on May 01, 2012, 01:00:07 PM
Thanks for the heads-up @tjuillerat.
I dropped a note to the mayor's office.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Fett on May 01, 2012, 01:22:44 PM
I just dropped a note to the mayors office also. I tried to keep it short making one point about the advantages of having a trail there. here is what I put just as an example:
 
I wanted to voice my support for mountain biking trails at Eagle Creek. It is a large park that can support a mountain bike trail without infringing upon any nature preserve areas or other user groups. If we want to stop the "brain drain" of our best and brightest homegrown young graduates leaving the area, as a government, we need to make Indianapolis a place that is attractive to the young professionals. Mountain biking is one of the fastest growing segments of outdoor recreation and one of the most appealing to that demographic. It makes good business sense to keep our good young talent at home. Please consider this as you make decisions about the park.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: indytriple on May 01, 2012, 03:53:21 PM
I just received this email from Councillor McHenry:

Dear Mr. Juillerat,


Thanks for getting back with me.  I have never said any of those quotes! I would appreciate you setting that straight with wherever you heard it. Looking back through emails I have received from constituents and others, I believe those quotes were ones that were sent to me.  NOT from me.  In today's media world people do seem to like to twist, cut, and otherwise edit things to alter them to their liking.  Why I am the victim of this is beyond me.  I do know that putting out false information is not the way to gain respect or belief and trust in what your cause is.  Thanks again for letting me know what you heard.


Sincerely,
Janice McHenry
City-County Councillor District 6


Her name has since been removed from the comments on the web site where it first appeared.  It's a shame that our opposition is going as far as falsely attributing statements to public officials.  Please do not contact Councillor McHenry as these are apparently not her quotes.  Thanks to everyone that reacted quickly to this, even though it was apparently a false alarm.  Feel free to keep contacting Mayor Ballard, though!
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: wabasso on May 02, 2012, 08:24:24 AM

http://community.associawebsites.com/sites/EaglesWatchHOA/Pages/AcwDefault.aspx (http://community.associawebsites.com/sites/EaglesWatchHOA/Pages/AcwDefault.aspx)

Janice McHenry's comments appear in the "Announcements from our Community" section of the Eagles Watch HOA website.  She might want to contact them if she "never said any of those quotes!"   


Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tmac on May 02, 2012, 09:55:50 AM
It is posted there underneath one of her posts but not signed by her. I would hazard a guess that is where the confusion came from.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on May 02, 2012, 09:56:50 AM
It is posted there underneath one of her posts but not signed by her. I would hazard a guess that is where the confusion came from.

Her name has since been removed from the comments on the web site where it first appeared.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: TonyO on May 02, 2012, 09:25:16 PM
I just received this email from Councillor McHenry:

Dear Mr. Juillerat,


Thanks for getting back with me.  I have never said any of those quotes! I would appreciate you setting that straight with wherever you heard it. Looking back through emails I have received from constituents and others, I believe those quotes were ones that were sent to me.  NOT from me.  In today's media world people do seem to like to twist, cut, and otherwise edit things to alter them to their liking.  Why I am the victim of this is beyond me.  I do know that putting out false information is not the way to gain respect or belief and trust in what your cause is.  Thanks again for letting me know what you heard.


Sincerely,
Janice McHenry
City-County Councillor District 6


Her name has since been removed from the comments on the web site where it first appeared.  It's a shame that our opposition is going as far as falsely attributing statements to public officials.  Please do not contact Councillor McHenry as these are apparently not her quotes.  Thanks to everyone that reacted quickly to this, even though it was apparently a false alarm.  Feel free to keep contacting Mayor Ballard, though!


@tania Did she explain her stance on the EC mtb trails to you?
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on May 02, 2012, 09:38:41 PM
No.  She simply stated that she is in support of a public meeting to discuss it.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Doe on May 03, 2012, 01:04:56 PM
http://www.ibj.com/bike-trail-push-for-eagle-creek-stirs-controversy/PARAMS/article/34175
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: gt ss on May 03, 2012, 08:09:21 PM
I added .02 ;)
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Doe on May 03, 2012, 08:28:41 PM
The HMBA/MTB crowd is well (intelligently) represented in the comments section!  8)
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on May 04, 2012, 11:21:34 AM
Thanks for sharing the article!
 
We will be sure and post an update as soon as a public meeting has been announced.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Kswiss on May 22, 2012, 11:17:29 AM
Email from the government office.


Quote
Jen Pittman Deputy Director, Indy Parks
 jpittman@indy.gov
 317-610-7152

Indy Parks Will Hold Listening Session Regarding Mountain Biking in Eagle Creek Park

INDIANAPOLIS – The Indianapolis Department of Parks and Recreation will hold a public listening session to gather input on the topic of mountain biking in Eagle Creek Park.  The public meeting will take place at 6 p.m. on June 6, 2012, at the Pike Performing Arts Center.

At this time, there are no formal plans in place to add mountain bike trails to Eagle Creek Park. However, due to an increased level of public interest in the topic, Indy Parks would like for Parks staff to gain a fuller understanding of the views of community members.

WHO:                    Indy Parks staff and members of the Indianapolis community

WHAT:                 Public listening session regarding mountain biking in Eagle Creek Park

WHEN:                  June 6, 2012
 Sign-in and seating will begin at 5:30 p.m.
 Meeting will begin at 6 p.m.

WHERE:                Pike Performing Arts Center

Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on May 27, 2012, 11:50:44 PM
Hey folks.. we have started an online petition to show support for mountain bike/mutli-use trails at Eagle Creek Park. Please take a moment to sign this petition.. then pass it on to your friends!
 
https://www.change.org/petitions/indy-parks-and-recreation-allow-multi-use-hiking-biking-trail-running-trails-at-eagle-creek-park (https://www.change.org/petitions/indy-parks-and-recreation-allow-multi-use-hiking-biking-trail-running-trails-at-eagle-creek-park)
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on May 29, 2012, 06:45:01 PM
Here is a link to a news article from Channel 6 news today.
 
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/31126554/detail.html (http://www.theindychannel.com/news/31126554/detail.html)
 
 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: gt ss on May 29, 2012, 08:38:33 PM
"We'd like to see foot traffic only, which is current policy," Gorney said.

Then build them yourself Gorney :o
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: fender__bender on May 29, 2012, 08:40:48 PM
"Anti-biker wakadoo" alert on the RTV6 news site.

Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: gt ss on May 29, 2012, 08:53:26 PM
Ask to build a horse trail and see how fast they get the bulldozers and gravel trucks in there.

Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: mtbikernate on May 30, 2012, 03:56:18 PM
"Anti-biker wakadoo" alert on the RTV6 news site.


no kidding.  he's going to find himself arrested again one of these days.  attacking the rider with a saw was the best ammunition he ever could have given us, though.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Tim Carmichael on June 04, 2012, 04:23:13 PM
While I no longer ride MTB's, I do trail run on the west side of EC Park.  The 'birders' can be somewhat petulant. 


As has been mentioned, the trails are random, follow fall lines (causing accelerated erosion) and certainly are in need of careful and consistent tending.


Another argument in favor of these trails should be the economic impact this would have on the Brownsburg, Trader's Point, Pike area.  Having run in the Fayetteville, WV area, and having relatives in nearby Beckley, I can attest to the positive impact adventure sports have on an area.  From bike shops springing up to restaurants thriving to hotel occupancy to improved property values, adventure sport participants have money and we spend it--and the local economy benefits.


5 birdwatchers a day on this parcel of land adds exactly ZIP to the local economy.


Thanks, Paul, for making this push.


Tim C.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: gt ss on June 04, 2012, 05:27:45 PM
5 birdwatchers a day on this parcel of land adds exactly ZIP to the local economy.

Right on!

And 5 is probably a generous number.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: chuckdlou on June 04, 2012, 06:15:19 PM
well, i've stayed out of this so far...mostly because i don't want to give my fellow mtber's a bad name due to my lack of filter between brain and mouth (or keyboard), and no tolerance for dipferds...but here goes...and i hope by chance that there are a few birders lurking on this thread...but it's perfectly reasonable to be a mountain biker and a birder...AT THE SAME TIME!...i have an expensive pair of binoculars and a life list...i prefer peterson guides over sibley's just like i prefer sram over shimano...i've experienced some of my best birding moments EVER while straddling my bike on the edge of a multi-use trail...never would have seen a clark's nutcracker if it weren't for the bike...i also got to witness a gatling of red-headed woodpeckers in Brown County, at least 50 individuals strong...again, while on the bike...and yes i used the term gatling, look it up...i am proud to announce myself as a birder/biker and they are definitely not mutually exclusive...oh yeah, check out land between the lakes down in Kentucky...look at numbers of nesting pairs of eagles and their locations relative to the bike trail...see anything interesting?
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: mastertim on June 05, 2012, 10:14:18 AM
I saw an interesting argument on the counter petition.

 "I live right by the park on the west side of Eagle Creek Res. I enjoy bird watching on this side, walking my dog on this side and just having a nice quite time with nature."

Am I the only one that thinks a dog's presence would disturb birds long before a quiet mountain biker would?
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Tim Carmichael on June 05, 2012, 11:47:58 AM
Not if you're the one walking the dog.


Lots of "I've got mine" in the opposition group.


TC
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: KevinG on June 06, 2012, 09:23:57 PM
can someone post a meeting summary for those of us who couldn't make it?
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: ScottC on June 06, 2012, 11:40:41 PM
can someone post a meeting summary for those of us who couldn't make it?

It was pretty calm and civil.  HMBA was very well represented.  It basically consisted of 2 hours of 2 minute speaches by whoever wanted to sign up to speak on the way in.  I did not sense a negative stance toward mountain biking.  The main argument seemed to be against the location.  I thought the mountain biking community presented their position very well.  I think it will boil down to whether or not we can convince Indy Parks that no damage will be done to the wildlife/birds.  The nature of the meeting made it impossible to get a read on what Indy Parks thought of the input.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: ScottC on June 06, 2012, 11:50:55 PM
I notice my first post on this site says "training wheels on".  Not sure how this is possible since I am not even a newbie.  I am just a wannabe at this point.  I don't even own a bike yet.  The key word there is YET.  The urge has become extremely strong and riding will be happening this summer.  I am just clueless on where to start at this point and will need to figure things out.  Thank you to the guy that was willing to give me a few minutes of his time after the meeting to answer some questions about trying to find my first bike.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on June 07, 2012, 06:55:56 AM
Thanks to all that came out.  The turn out was much larger than Indy Parks expected,  they had us in a 100 seat room and it was standing room only 15 minutes before the meeting started.  So they had to move us to a bigger room.

Both sides spoke very well, it seemed about 50/50 between attendees and speakers.  Most of the opposition was based around the location of the trails on the West Side. 

They City and Parks Department are very neutral on this, but they are listening and the mtb turn out showed the need for more mountain biking and the many good characteristics of the mountain bike community. 

I think the next steps are to organize the comments in to categories and work through them based on science.

Thanks, again  Paul
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Catrin on June 07, 2012, 07:01:05 AM
There did seem to be some misconception about what mountain biking looks like in Indiana, at least that is what I picked up. A couple of comments seemed to indicate that a few have seen some videos on YouTube that were perhaps not on cross-country mtb, but that is simply a matter of education. I had to leave about halfway through but I hope someone suggested in their comments that those interested should search for some of the many videos available on riding in BCSP, and I think there are now a couple of videos of Ft. Ben. Even still, as Paul said, the resistance was more to the location than the activity.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: mastertim on June 07, 2012, 08:48:14 AM
What kind of summary doesn't include the underlying theme of golf bashing?  Or the wacky lady who seemed to get applause from everybody.  She rambled something about the 60s and 70s and drugs, and a bunch of guys golfing at Eagle Creek with one lady who was selling them hot dogs.  I had to leave 30 minutes early, hopefully I didn't miss anything else good.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Indiana Dave on June 07, 2012, 09:26:04 AM
I am not educated enough on the ecology of that area, therefore I only wanted to dispell misconceptions on what mountainbiking is all about, and point out that I have actually seen no difference in the wildlife at other areas I've ridden.
Many picture mountainbiking as the X-games, and Mountain Dew commercials portray it. I pointed out that most mountainbiking in this area is just a fun ride thru the woods.
I also pointed out that I've seen the same wildlife in other areas on my bike that I see when hiking.
I do think that if, in fact, there is a scientific study on the area done, and it finds that there are rare birds, etc that might suffer, that maybe we should find another area in the park.
I used to live in that area about 15 years ago, and hiked, fished, mushroom-hunted and yes, rode my bike, in that area (before I knew better). I only remember that area as a trash-ridden, maze of criss-crossing trails, that mostly led to fishing spots that were littered with beer cans, styrofoam worm containers, etc.
I've actually been on a couple of those Sunday morning bird-watching walks also, and those people are against anyone besides them being in that area, period. I've seen them yell at a fisherman for walking to loudly thru the woods. I've also had them yell at me for walking my dogs in those woods.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: flyinbrian on June 07, 2012, 02:08:47 PM
I have not been on my M.T. bike yet this year but I felt that it was important to go to this meeting last night. I think it went pretty well, even though there was just as many of them as there was us. Like others have said, I do not think the bird watcher know what a properly built trail looks like nor have a clue of what most M.T. bikers are about. Hopefully the park staff saw that and will give us a chance to educate them. All the M.T. bikers I herd that stood up and spoke did us proud! I would like to send the park staff a brief message, but I did not get the parks email contacts last night. So if someone could post them or send me a PM I would appreciate it.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Dave G. on June 07, 2012, 04:50:37 PM
I wanted to speak, but did not get there soon enough to get on the list. 
 
My takeaway from the meeting was that while we mountain bikers expressed our love and enjoyment of mtbing, and spoke primarily about the benefits of mtbing for the public, birders came with prepared statements expressing what will be taken from them if mtbing is allowed.   As a whole, the birders pleaded their case on an emotional level, especially about the nesting Bald Eagles.  I think it's very cool to have them nesting in ECP, but as to whether they will or won't leave if mtbing is allowed in that area, I personally want to see empirical evidence of that before accepting that bicycles should not be allowed on the west side of the reservoir. 
 
Many were very specific about not wanting mtbs west of the reservoir, but not saying they were against mtbing elsewhere in the park, and many specifically recommending certain areas.   Sure, they won't care of mtbs are allowed on the east side, just as long as they are not allowed on the west side!  There may be other areas east of the reservoir that can accomodate a mtb trail, but any trail distance less than four miles won't be worth the drive for most people.  We need to have a loop of at least six to seven miles.
 
Basically, I see it as we want equal access to public land for a healthy, fun activity, and encourage others to use the trails we build and land we use, regardless of the activity.  Birders seem to only want other birders on the land they use.   Given how long it took to get trails at Fort Harrison, this will take awhile.  But it's a start.  Which is more that what we've had the past few years.  Personally, trails in any part of the park would be OK with me, but I trust the HMBA leadership to take the best course of action in regards to trail location.
 
 
Dave
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Kswiss on June 07, 2012, 05:04:05 PM
  There may be other areas east of the reservoir that can accomodate a mtb trail, but any trail distance less than four miles won't be worth the drive for most people.  We need to have a loop of at least six to seven miles.
 


This is my concern as well.  If there is somewhere else that there can be a Quality trail system built then that is fine by me.  What the worst case for me would be is a trail is allowed to be built but it is not a quality fun trail that is long enough to attract riders.  If a trail is built and fails due to under use/abandonment because it lacks the draw to attract frequent riders then it would put expanding that trail system or any others in the area in jeopardy.  But HMBA leadership is very much aware of these issues I would imagine and will not build unless it can meet certain standards.



Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Tim Carmichael on June 07, 2012, 08:17:28 PM
Sell the economic aspect to the West Side.  The area on Lafayette Rd. with the old Co-Op building might be developed.  Home values in the neighborhoods south of 71st St. and at 56th and Raceway could increase.


Does IMBA have any comparison studies (before and after) on the economic impact following the establishment of trails near urban areas?  I believe the Moon Dog has seen an increase in business since TRTP opened.  ;)


Just some thoughts.


TC
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: yeti_xc on June 08, 2012, 07:23:40 AM
 
 
. Did anyone bring up the fact that there is a nesting pair of Bald Eagles @ Town Run ? They seem to be unaffected by mountain bikers and have been there for three years that I know of. Could this mean that Bald Eagles are more comfortable with mountain bikers than being stalked by birders ?
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Tim Carmichael on June 08, 2012, 08:33:46 AM
Wildlife gets comfortable with whatever they see frequently.


When my son and I went to our property hunting deer, there was no wildlife of any sort present.  Why?  Because they don't normally see humans in THEIR "living room".  The birds and animals got out.


When I run in ECP East, the deer just stand there and continue eating 15 feet from the trail.  The see people 20 times a day.  They get used to us being there and they know there is no threat.  If anything, increased traffic would settle the wildlife, increasing opportunities for viewing.


Also, this plan doesn't touch the area north of Eagle's Crest.  There is a large area up there between the creek and Wilson Rd.  The MTB trails wouldn't eliminate their private sanctuary, they just have to share.


TC
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: garydzeb on June 08, 2012, 08:50:49 AM
I have seen the two Bald Eagles flying over Town Run.  Very cool!
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: RDF73Charger on June 08, 2012, 09:10:47 AM
Here are the email addresses.
 
Karen Lightbourne, Neighborhood Liason For ECP area. karen.lightbourne@indy.gov
Dennis Papenmeier, Neighborhood Liason Director. dennis.papenmeier@indy.gov
Jen Pitman, Mayors Office. jen.pitman@indy.gov
John Williams, Indy Parks Director. john.williams@indy.gov
Carrie Kasnika Williams, ECP Manager. carrie.kasnika@indy.gov
 
Just as a side note. There were two bald Eagles at Lake Lemon a few years ago. They lived about
100 feet from a bunch of cabins and powerboat docks. My mom had a lot of the listed bird species that would
frequent her back yard in Speedway. I also know the bird watchers expressed concern about
ground nesting species. Given the coyote population in the area I really doubt there are any ground nesters that could survive. Plan to go out and take a look sometime in the next few weeks.
We might try to reach out to the Audubon folks and see if we could have a joint area clean up day.
One way or the other we are going to have to work with these people to get a place at ECP.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Steve King on June 15, 2012, 01:24:55 PM
Letter to the Editor in today's Star.  In the paper a picture of the Wooded Banked Turn was included with someone riding it.
"Rethink plan for bike trails at Eagle Creek"
http://blogs.indystar.com/letters/2012/06/14/rethink-plan-for-bike-trails-at-eagle-creek/ (http://blogs.indystar.com/letters/2012/06/14/rethink-plan-for-bike-trails-at-eagle-creek/)
 
 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: gt ss on June 15, 2012, 05:02:37 PM
It looks like JBF may not have all her facts straight like;

"Is there income in the budget for an expansion of this sport?"
She should know that it doesn't cost money when HMBA pays for mtls and donates labor. She should also know that the trails will generate revenue in gate receipts.

and

"Currently there are 67 mountain bike trails in Indiana, two in our city and one in Avon, which is just 22 minutes from Eagle Creek Park."
I don't know how many trails there are in Indiana but I know there are 3 in Indy.

As far as the disturbing the wildlife, I have seen more deer peacefully grazing the woods of the IM and Schoen Creek trails @ Ft Ben than I've seen anywhere else. They are quite acclimated to us already.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on June 21, 2012, 10:09:32 AM
A well-written article in Nuvo yesterday:
 
http://www.nuvo.net/indianapolis/eagle-creek-bike-trail-brouhaha/Content?oid=2460185 (http://www.nuvo.net/indianapolis/eagle-creek-bike-trail-brouhaha/Content?oid=2460185)
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: chuckdlou on June 21, 2012, 10:54:58 AM
now in my 23rd year riding mtb and i've never run over a snake...ridiculous assumption...
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Shark on June 21, 2012, 09:50:40 PM
How about we rally all the mtbers from around the state and go out there and ride....
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Ed Strobel on June 21, 2012, 10:22:48 PM
Shark, which do you mean?
Ride the park roads, or poach the trails?
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: David Krahulik on June 22, 2012, 05:49:54 AM
At this point, where should we be sending polite pro trail letters and emails?  Thanks.  David Krahulik
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: RDF73Charger on June 22, 2012, 03:54:35 PM
We should be sending our emails to the the people on my June 8th post and the Mayors office.
Find out who your City Council person is if you live in Indy and contact them.
Although I would lay off of Jen Pitman as she is most likely busy dealing with the aftermath
of the Garfield park pool chemical spill and doesn't need anymore stuff in her in box.
I would be very opposed to poaching the trail. To the point of standing in the way.
I think nothing would shut us out of ECP quicker than a group poach ride.
A group ride in the park would show our numbers, but might give a false impression
that we would always be in mass in the park.
The Mayor is having a ride July 14th at 8:30am before the Indy Crit.
Doing that ride and putting a sign on your back saying "I support ECP mountain biking" might be a good idea.
I just got back from vaca and saw the letter to the editor from JBF. Clearly she has got what we do very wrong.
I think that is the main problem. The people againts mtb in ECP just have not seen the good HMBA has done for the state and city parks they have been involved with. We need to find a good way to educate them.
Not sure how to do that other than taking them to BCSP or Ft. Ben.
I told the one guy at the Pike meeting in the RAIN jersey to go look at the mtb trails at Ft. Ben.
He said he knew all the trails at Ft. Ben, but clearly did not when I described how hard it was to find the mtb trails.
One thing we might point out. IF the only viable area is the westside of the park we could provide the opposition
groups with a buffer to future development. Looking at the proposed maps we are really not wanting to build in the "protected" area. If we had a joint easment it might make it harder for someone to put up a meeting center or lodge in that area. Being able to say "That would cut through the existing mtb trail" might be of some use to the bird watchers in the future. I still think at this point the next step would be a joint cleanup day at ECP with some of the opposition groups. Also write and thank Nuvo for their balanced piece. Mary Milz at WTHR, also did a good story on mtb at ECP. They like to get good feedback.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: mhelsel on June 23, 2012, 07:50:37 PM
I have been in conversation with one of the opposition who is indifferent to the trash on the west side of Eagle Creek Park - really!!  I agree that a joint cleanup should be attempted, even if opposition doesn't care about the trash or doesn't want to participate.  I can also recruit the local scout groups to assist with clean-up.
I am rallying support here in Pike Township, and I am working on the community leaders and politicians as I believe that we need to show that support is local and more broad and diverse than the opposition's narrow-minded views and interests. I also think our cause needs to be politically neutral.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on June 24, 2012, 08:25:27 PM
At this point, the best thing everyone can do, is to support HMBA. 

Talk to other riders and encourage them to join HMBA:  Increasing HMBA's membership helps our funding and shows the number of mountain bikers who support HMBA's efforts for more trails.

Volunteer: Come out for trail work at other parks.  It is more important than ever that we keep all existing trails well maintained, and that we are successful in our new trail projects.  Also, look for non trail building volunteer opportunities.  IMBA take a kid mtd day, Hoosier Outdoor Experience, BCBD, etc....  Volunteering is the best way to support HMBA and to get to know us.

Be an Ambassador: Be nice to other trail users, say hi or thank you other trail users, talk to other trail users, yield to other riders and non riders, etc...  Basically act as if the person you meet on the trail works for the parks or is a person of influence (they may be). 

Support HMBA financially:  We take checks!  HMBA Trail Fund / 1427 W86th St Suite 167 / Indianapolis, IN 46260

HMBA is working with Indy Park Leadership to follow up on the public meeting.  The MTB community did a great job both in turn out and in speaking.  At this point our voice has been heard.  Sending more emails or organizing rides at eagle creek would just be a distraction at this point.  The best way to help with trails at Eagle Creek is to support HMBA in general. 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on June 25, 2012, 08:25:16 AM
Letters to the editor like this actually help us.

http://blogs.indystar.com/letters/2012/06/24/eagle-creek-doesnt-seem-suited-for-mountain-bike-trails/ (http://blogs.indystar.com/letters/2012/06/24/eagle-creek-doesnt-seem-suited-for-mountain-bike-trails/)


Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Inept_MTBer on July 01, 2012, 10:32:31 AM
Letters to the editor like this actually help us.

http://blogs.indystar.com/letters/2012/06/24/eagle-creek-doesnt-seem-suited-for-mountain-bike-trails/ (http://blogs.indystar.com/letters/2012/06/24/eagle-creek-doesnt-seem-suited-for-mountain-bike-trails/)
Not a very "christian" person is this Reverend CV Nelson, is he/she/they?

I really would like to know where this gamunt of awful PR for mountain bikers has come from. I've riding trails in Indiana since 2009 and the only people I've ever had a real issue with is either horse riders who decided to poach Limekiln trail in BCSP (yes I reported them VERY quickly indeed) or some BMX punks in Town Run who seemed like they were there to harass female trail runners rather than actually enjoy the trails (again, reported).

For the most part everybody on the trail I've met is not only friendly but also realizes that the HMBA has put in so much work and dedication to the trails that they enjoy.

Seriously, when do we start flooding the star with pro mtb letters that start calling into question the authenticity of the oppositions argument IE maybe they're getting a monetary incentive to resist any sort of change?
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on July 01, 2012, 10:42:18 AM


Quote
Seriously, when do we start flooding the star with pro mtb letters that start
calling into question the authenticity of the oppositions argument IE maybe
they're getting a monetary incentive to resist any sort of change?

 
I don't think there is really any need to start submitting pro mtb letters to the Star to try and make these anti mountain bike letters look bad... they're doing a pretty good job of that themselves.  At this point more letters to the editor or other such non-sense is just a distraction.  I'm doubtful the opposition is even reading any of the responses anyway and IndyParks has probably had enough as well.
 
As Paul said in an earlier post.. the best thing you can do now is to be a strong and POSITIVE advocate for mountain biking in Indiana.  Not just Eagle Creek.  Be polite to other trail users, talk to people you see, volunteer at other trail building days/events, donate to the HMBA trail fund, etc. 
 
 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: lenlog on July 01, 2012, 08:26:27 PM
Letters to the editor like this actually help us.

http://blogs.indystar.com/letters/2012/06/24/eagle-creek-doesnt-seem-suited-for-mountain-bike-trails/ (http://blogs.indystar.com/letters/2012/06/24/eagle-creek-doesnt-seem-suited-for-mountain-bike-trails/)
There is one misconception in his letter that I think should be corrected, at least in a response to him.
He thinks mountain biking should be left to state DNR properties because they have the resources to build and maintain them.  He should know that the state doesn't put any resources into trail construction or maintenance.
 
 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: gt ss on July 01, 2012, 11:07:19 PM
Letters to the editor like this actually help us.

http://blogs.indystar.com/letters/2012/06/24/eagle-creek-doesnt-seem-suited-for-mountain-bike-trails/ (http://blogs.indystar.com/letters/2012/06/24/eagle-creek-doesnt-seem-suited-for-mountain-bike-trails/)
There is one misconception in his letter that I think should be corrected, at least in a response to him.
He thinks mountain biking should be left to state DNR properties because they have the resources to build and maintain them.  He should know that the state doesn't put any resources into trail construction or maintenance.

If he did in fact care to read the responses, he would now know that.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: KKeg14 on July 26, 2012, 12:21:29 AM
What's the most recent update on this? Haven't heard anything in a while..
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Tim Carmichael on August 03, 2012, 11:09:47 AM
Ok, now I'm REALLY mad.  (Mostly at myself, but...)


I just looked at the map of the proposed MTB trails and realized that only a small section intersects with the standard 'bird-watcher' trail that runs north/south down to 56th St.


What's the problem?


This only cements, in my mind, the fact that the opponents of MTB trails simply want to keep this area as their exclusive preserve.


This just spiked my level of incredulity at their level of selfishness.


TC
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: jrocker on August 03, 2012, 02:37:23 PM
I know that I will probably get flamed for this but, should we push for mountain bike trails in every park?  There are already local trails at Town Run and Fort Harrison.  I know that people want variety and I understand that but no matter what we do to minimize our impact there is no denying there is an impact from increased traffic.

Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: getsometrail on August 03, 2012, 03:43:23 PM
I know that I will probably get flamed for this but, should we push for mountain bike trails in every park?  There are already local trails at Town Run and Fort Harrison.  I know that people want variety and I understand that but no matter what we do to minimize our impact there is no denying there is an impact from increased traffic.


There are already poor quality existing trails so we would be replacing those and making an upgrade.  Then in theory the more trails we have the less use each trail gets so the overall impact on the metro area parks would be less.  This, IMO, is really a result of a bigger underlying issue.  That issues is the fact that the Indy area does not have enough parks to support the growing user groups.  I also beleive that more trails and access gets more people involved or at least introduced to the idea of conservation of natural resources.  Thus gaining more support for the effort, which inturn can lead to more parks, forests, ect and imporving the quality of life for many residents.  If you set aside land and then tell people they can't use it then who's going to support that?  If you set aside land and allow people to fish, bike, hike, hunt, camp, bird watch, or whatever they will enjoy it and then support will grow. 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: RDF73Charger on August 03, 2012, 07:59:28 PM
There is not much happening at this point. This process will take awhile.
Longer because the opposition does not understand what we do and is using some
misinformation to try to keep the park to themselves.
Eagle Creek would provide a much needed westside MTB trail.
Saving the riders from that side of town from a 30 to 45 min. drive just to ride.
Also this is one of the largest city parks in the country.
Larger than Westwood or North Vernon and they have great trails that enhance those parks.
More than enough space for all user groups to share
and not bother each other if they are willing.
No one is pushing for every park.
And the Lilly  charter for the ECP says it is to be used for the enjoyment of all.
Not just the 18 or so user groups there now.
Where do you ride jrocker?
Also, great response getsometrail.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: jrocker on August 03, 2012, 10:33:38 PM
There are already poor quality existing trails so we would be replacing those and making an upgrade.  Then in theory the more trails we have the less use each trail gets so the overall impact on the metro area parks would be less.  This, IMO, is really a result of a bigger underlying issue.  That issues is the fact that the Indy area does not have enough parks to support the growing user groups.  I also beleive that more trails and access gets more people involved or at least introduced to the idea of conservation of natural resources.  Thus gaining more support for the effort, which inturn can lead to more parks, forests, ect and imporving the quality of life for many residents.  If you set aside land and then tell people they can't use it then who's going to support that?  If you set aside land and allow people to fish, bike, hike, hunt, camp, bird watch, or whatever they will enjoy it and then support will grow.


Thank you for excellent reply.  I ride in Brown County mostly although I do live downtown Indy.  I have been to most of the parks across Indiana and I enjoy visiting Eagle Creek.  It seems to be one of the few parks in Indiana that doesn't allow motor boats which is nice since the places that do might as well be off-limits to kayaking;  this kind of makes me put myself in other groups shoes. 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Tim Carmichael on August 04, 2012, 10:02:50 PM
Jrocker--I understand your post.  I run the existing trail year-round, the proposed MTB trail will share that trail for a very short distance.  This is simply making use of an area that is unused at this time.


This plan adds a user group with virtually zero impact on the current user groups.


Win-win.


Tim C.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: john7722 on August 20, 2012, 12:08:56 PM
Here is an article that may help the cause  in some way.
 http://m.heraldbulletin.com/thb/pm_104134/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=HDTePKMX
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: kjsayers on August 24, 2012, 11:21:46 AM
Great point John
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on August 24, 2012, 04:55:50 PM
I think that many of our politicians like to talk tough about issues like fitness (or lack of) or the retention of young educated workers, but actually doing something about it is a different issue. 

At the public meeting, one thing that stood out was the average age difference between the pro and anti mtb groups.  Keep in mind that most of our public leaders are in their age group.

Unless we are willing to wait another 20 years until our public leaders are from our generation, we need to get involved politically now.

Find out who is running for office in your area.  If you wait till after the elections, its too late. contact your candidates and ask pointed questions about their support for trails as a way to improve the health of their constituents and to attract young professionals.  Email them, call there campaign offices, Go to public meetings and town hall ethey are holding, etc.....  We need to get them to take a stand prior to the elections and they need to know that their views on trails will impact there chances to get elected.


Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: JasonS on August 25, 2012, 01:53:44 PM

Does IMBA have any comparison studies (before and after) on the economic impact following the establishment of trails near urban areas?  I believe the Moon Dog has seen an increase in business since TRTP opened.  ;)






TRTP was there before Moon Dog.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on August 25, 2012, 02:57:17 PM
www.imba.com


Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: RDF73Charger on October 04, 2012, 07:45:48 AM
NUVO newspaper has a neat insert this week that has the names of
the City Council members and their email addresses broken down by district.
Find your council member and email them that you support MTB at Eagle Creek Park.
Got to keep up the fight.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Kswiss on October 09, 2012, 08:51:08 AM
http://maps.indy.gov/GovProfile/ (http://maps.indy.gov/GovProfile/)


Or you can go here and find lots of information.


Most important it will show your district's City Council Member and give you contact information.  Just enter your address.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on October 19, 2012, 09:04:09 AM
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012121017049 (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012121017049)

This is an interesting development.  I think this will provide a platform for us to present a vision for mountain bike trails and parks directly to the Mayor. 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: garydzeb on October 19, 2012, 03:18:29 PM
I saw this covered on the TV news last night, I think it's a good sign.  And Mr. Mayor likes bikes too!
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: RDF73Charger on December 05, 2012, 07:22:13 AM
Town Hall Meeting about ECP tonight at Eagle Creek Elementary School.
6905 W. 46th Street. 6:30p to 8pm
I am busy and can't make it. Go out and show your support.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on December 05, 2012, 09:27:01 AM
Quote
When:  Wed., Dec. 5, 6:30-8 p.m.   Councillor Jose Evans District 1 along with Councillor Janice McHenry District 6 will host a joint Town Hall Meeting.  Among the guest speakers for the evening will be John Williams, Director of Indianapolis Parks.
 Come learn about what has been going on and some future plans for the Eagle Creek Park area.
     Eagle Creek Elementary School (http://www.nuvo.net/indianapolis/eagle_creek_elementary_school/Location?oid=2515054)  6905 W. 46th Street, Indianapolis
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From http://www.nuvo.net/indianapolis/town-hall-meeting/Event?oid=2515055#.UL9PpIbvmSo

Thanks for catching this.  I was unaware of this meeting. 

As this is a meeting hosted by City Council Members, the greatest impact would be for residents of Districts 1 and 9 (residences close to the Eagle Creek) to attend. 

There isn't much value in a large turn out from the general mountain bike community ( those who don't live near eagle creek).

This could be an interesting meeting given the deer reduction issue that has come up.

I do plan to be there to represent HMBA.


Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Fett on December 06, 2012, 10:41:27 AM
Can we get a report on the meeting?  Anything new on the Eagle Creek front?
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on December 06, 2012, 10:45:49 AM
I will provide an update later today.

Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on December 06, 2012, 04:53:22 PM
The meeting had less fire works than I anticipated.  Now one from the anti deer hunt group spoke up, and mountain biking wasn't discuss to much.  Most of the public comments were about a lake of paved greenways in that park of City.

The Indy Parks Director did state that mountain bike trails at Eagle Creek are being tabled.  This obviously isn't what we wanted to hear and one local mountain biker did ask a question about mountain biking. 

It is important to understand that the topic isn't being drop and the answer isn't no. This means that Indy Parks doesn't feel that this is the right time to decide on mountain biking at Eagle Creek.

Some back ground.

1) Under the previous Indy Parks Director HMBA and Indy Parks relationship hit an all time low.  We were not alone in our discontent with the Parks department and this in part lead to new Park leadership.  We are currently working to rebuild that relationship and are having positive developments (although slower than we might like). 

2) Eagle Creek is a mess.  The last Master Plan was done in 1997.  There are many locals who like things the way they are and use an out dated Master Plan against change.  There are many upset over Go Ape, the Idea of mountain biking, the removal of honeysuckle, deer reduction, etc..... 

It would be difficult to be successful at Eagle Creek with these issues, so they really need to be address prior to adding mtb trails to Eagle Creek.

I met with Indy Parks today.  We have several things in going on to work towards being in a position to fix the trail and add mountain bike trails to Eagle Creek.

On the HMBA/Indy Parks relations, we are
Indy Park's goal is to complete master plans on all of its Parks in the next 5 years, and Eagle Creek is on the short list.  This is really needed for the over all good of the Park.  Mountain Biking would be on the table in the Master Planning process.  I will be asking Indy Parks about the status of the Eagle Creek Master Plan monthly until it takes place.
The other thing hanging out there is SWW.  We finally got our NEPA paper work submitted last week. If all goes well we could have construction approval this month.  SWW is the chance to really show Indy Parks what we can do and what a well designed trail system can be.  This will be project that will help Indy Parks better understand trails and the final product at SWW will give us a big piece of ammunition for the Eagle Creek Master Plan.
We also have a game plan for allowing night riding at Town Run.  It will not likely happen this year, so if anyone is interested in hosting special night ride events, please do so. 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: RDF73Charger on February 21, 2013, 08:06:59 AM
There was a meeting last night at the Pike salvation army center about ECP.
Did anyone go?
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on April 12, 2013, 01:27:28 PM
From the Mountain Bike Trails at Eagle Creek Park Facebook page:
[/size][/color]
[/size]"We'd like all friends to visit the [/color][/size]Indy Parks & Recreation (https://www.facebook.com/indyparksandrec?group_id=0)[/color][/size] Facebook page (www.facebook.com/indyparksandrec (http://www.facebook.com/indyparksandrec)) . On the page there is a post from Wednesday that says, "Eagle Creek Park: From Go Ape Zip Lines to a Bark Park, the Indy Rowing Center, a Marina, Golf, Greenways, and[/color][/size] more the question is what does Eagle Creek not offer?"

We need you to go and answer their question. Eagle Creek does NOT offer mountain biking despite over ten years of lobbying by dedicated and hard-working mountain bike advocates. Tell them you want to see mountain biking at Eagle Creek. Do it in a polite and civil way, please. This is a very crucial time to effect change. Make your voice heard."
[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]See the original post here! www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTrailsinEagleCreekPark (http://www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTrailsinEagleCreekPark)[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size][/color]
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: RJ on April 12, 2013, 06:52:34 PM
Posted. ;D
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: tjuillerat on April 15, 2013, 10:29:30 AM
Dear Friends of Mountain Bike Trails in Eagle Creek Park,

 It's time to show what we are capable of doing, and to show our support for the park.  On THIS COMING SATURDAY (April 20 - Earth Day) there is a public work day on the west side of Eagle Creek in and around the area where multi-use trails are being proposed.  We need to see a very large turnout by mountain bikers and supporters of a multi-use, sustainable trail system at Eagle Creek.  We need to prove and show that we are a powerful source of volunteers and labor.  Please bring your best smile, attitude and work ethic.  Meet and talk to other folks.  Please be as self-sufficient as possible.  Dress appropriately for hard work in the woods (pants and gloves), and bring your own water and food.  RSVP on the Facebook event page so we can get an idea of who will be coming, please.  It would make a very strong statement to our opposition if our supporters were the largest contingent in attendance.  It's time to step away from behind our keyboards and show what we can bring to the table!

If you are on Facebook... please join the event and invite your friends to come along as well!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=491363637595109#!/events/434912929933478/ (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=491363637595109#!/events/434912929933478/)
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: indytriple on April 17, 2013, 10:34:52 AM
We've had about 10-12 multi-use/mountain bike trail proponents sign up for the work day this Saturday at Eagle Creek. We need to at least double or triple that number. It will be Earth Day, so get out and do something good for mother nature. If you can't make the entire session (9 a.m. - 1 p.m.) please come for any amount of time that you can spare. We can talk, post, tweet and blog until our faces are blue, but action is what it will take to accomplish our ultimate goal of mountain bike/multi-use trails in Eagle Creek. Bring a friend. Share this on your Facebook page. We really need to see a STRONG turnout for this event, folks!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=491363637595109#!/events/434912929933478/
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Steel on April 17, 2013, 11:43:53 AM
I would love to be there but i will be working my real job during that time i wish the best to y'all
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Tmiles on April 17, 2013, 08:40:36 PM
I would love to help on the project, however my son has a rowing regatta in Columbus, OH.
Thanks in advance to all who will be participating.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: indytriple on May 14, 2013, 12:15:42 PM
Just last Saturday on May 11, the Eagle Creek Park Foundation held it's first annual Iron Eagle Paddle and Run. According to them, it was a "fundraiser to help fund improvements, trail restoration projects and environmental education programs within Eagle Creek Park". One of the trail running portions of the event took place in the ďArea LĒ piece of land on the west side of the lake. This is the same area where mountain biking/multi-use trails are being proposed. A course for the runners was blazed through the woods for the event. The course has more similarities to a road rather than a proper trail or path. At points, it is over fifteen feet wide. All vegetation was removed. No consideration was given to erosion concerns or drainage. No consideration was given to impact on wildlife. This swath was created to accommodate 138 runners for one event. The event was held in wet, muddy conditions.  Mayor Ballard, Indy Parks and the folks at Eagle Creek Park say that mountain biking isn't compatible with the natural environment on the west side of Eagle Creek. They claim that mountain bikers will detrimentally affect the natural surroundings, yet they simultaneously create, allow and promote events like this which are harmful to the park and its natural surroundings. This behavior is hypocritical. Mountain bikers and other proponents of a responsibly designed and built multi-use trail system want to know the rationale behind keeping us out while things like this are happening concurrently. We want answers, and we want them soon.


Photos here:
http://indytriple.smugmug.com/Category/Eagle-Creek-Iron-Eagle-Paddle/29419412_PFpVQV (http://indytriple.smugmug.com/Category/Eagle-Creek-Iron-Eagle-Paddle/29419412_PFpVQV)

Please consider "liking" Mountain Bike Trails in Eagle Creek Park on Facebook.  Also, please share our post and photo album regarding this on your timeline.
https://www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTrailsInEagleCreekPark (https://www.facebook.com/MountainBikeTrailsInEagleCreekPark)
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: edf on May 14, 2013, 01:48:40 PM
Wow. That doesn't seem to be too good for the birds. I saw the map on the Facebook page showing the route through Area L. Is there anything else on the horizon that this road might be used for? To just cut a road for a annual running race seems ludicrous but with the parks budget being cut I can't imagine much else is going on out there.
 
 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: fender__bender on May 23, 2013, 08:20:25 PM
Another mud fest?


http://www.carmelmarathon.com/pages/8ktc (http://www.carmelmarathon.com/pages/8ktc)



Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: edf on May 23, 2013, 10:30:05 PM
Another mud fest?


http://www.carmelmarathon.com/pages/8ktc (http://www.carmelmarathon.com/pages/8ktc)
Looks like that is on the east side of the park.
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: aciresi132 on August 28, 2019, 12:58:20 PM
I just moved to the area.  I was wondering if anything else had been talked about or moved forward with trying to get trails built at Eagle Creek?
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Steve King on August 28, 2019, 01:43:59 PM

There is a HMBA tonight.  Good place to get info.

https://www.hmba.org/smf/index.php?topic=15571.0;topicseen (https://www.hmba.org/smf/index.php?topic=15571.0;topicseen)
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: aciresi132 on August 28, 2019, 02:58:33 PM
I saw that.  Unfortunately I have other commitments.  I would love to get more involved.


 
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: RDF73Charger on October 08, 2019, 05:47:28 PM
If you live near Eagle Creek and in Janice McHenry city-council district Crista Carlino is running against her. Janice has been opposed to Mtb in Eagle Creek Park.
I talked with Crista's husband and he told me she had heard of Ms. McHenry's opposition and she was for Mtb in ECP.
 :D
Title: Re: Eagle Creek Mountain Biking
Post by: Steve King on November 04, 2019, 09:04:03 AM
If you live near Eagle Creek and in Janice McHenry city-council district Crista Carlino is running against her. Janice has been opposed to Mtb in Eagle Creek Park.
I talked with Crista's husband and he told me she had heard of Ms. McHenry's opposition and she was for Mtb in ECP.
 :D


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