Hoosier Mountain Bike Association

HMBA Trail Information => Brown County State Park => Topic started by: Fett on January 09, 2012, 07:59:41 PM

Title: I am curious about something
Post by: Fett on January 09, 2012, 07:59:41 PM
I read these threads and people are constantly asking if BCSP is going to be rideable, which I understand. They are fantastic trails.  BUT, there are 3 other places close by that area also fantastic, but in a different way. I am speaking about Gnaw Bone Camp, Valley Branch Retreat and Nebo Ridge.  The people who know this area the best are imploring people to give it a try as the conditions there are perfect, but whenever I go out there and look at the signin sheets, they are always the same familiar riders. It looks like people are staying home rather than going out and having a little adventure.
 
Now, don't get me wrong. There is a certain appeal to having these gems of trails to myself and not overridden, so they stay in great shape, but I truly want people to get out and experience some of the coolest trails in the state.
 
The freeze/thaw cycles are not going away for at least the next week. Go out and give one of these a try. You might get lost for a little while, but I guarantee, that you will get back before you have to resort to cannibalism and you will a great story for your friends.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Shark on January 09, 2012, 08:17:40 PM
X2!
And no worries about getting lost if you ride nebo! Out and back.It is great fun out there.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Indiana Dave on January 09, 2012, 08:42:24 PM
I need to get out to these other trails. I've ridden Gnaw Bone, although it was over ten years ago. With the holidays, our vacation, and all of our other winter activities, I haven't even ridden my bike but maybe twice since the breakdown!
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Dan71 on January 09, 2012, 08:57:22 PM
Fett I have debated many times tagging along with your rides at these locations.  I guess I just need to get motivated.  Since moving to Columbus 3 years ago the longest imhave not been on trails is this last month or so.  Riding the road is boring.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gnawbonelefty on January 09, 2012, 09:10:59 PM
I think there are several factors.

IMBA spec trails have brought many new riders to the sport,  Trails build to these specifications lead to a slot car type of flow.  long downhills, little use for brakes, no steep uphills,  turns that aren't too tight or sudden. It's addictive.  If it's all you know, it is what you will think mountain biking is.  If you all ride are hmba built trails,  you'll never really learn to cross a log, ford a deep ditch, ride a stream bed ,climb a fall line, read map, even god forbid, put a foot down, or get off and hike a bike.  When you ride somewhere with these features, you could think this isn't mountain biking.

Experienced mountain bikers all know,  there is a world full of trails that weren't built by mountain bikers that are an absolute hoot to ride,  and some that are just tough.

To me, Gnawbone camp is the best trail system in the state,  mainly because there is nothing else like it. the AHT is probably right up there, but for the same reasons, it takes strength and skills to ride it. experiencel that will help you on any trail system anywhere.

Brown county park trails except schooner can be ridden at a constant level,  there are no surprises, the turns are designed to be easily makable,  the uphills to give you rests and the downhills to keep you on line.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Otter on January 10, 2012, 07:54:59 AM
There's something else that factors into it as well.  You mentioned that you keep seeing the same people on the sign-in sheets, locals I'm guessing.  I use to be local and rode all three of the trails quite a bit along with BCSP.  Always loved GBC and to a lesser extent VB.  Not a huge fan of Nebo, but I like it none the less.  I love BCSP though and it became my favorite trail while I was living in the area and even more so once Schooner opened.
 
So now that I live 2 hours away, whenever I can make it back down, the first thing I want to do is ride my favorite trail if possible.  I think for some people it's the fact that they're coming from pretty far distances to ride great trails.  When you're doing so you want to hit the favorites if at all possible, as we don't get to ride these trails every week like some do :P .  I know this weekend we hit Nebo first (knowing BCSP wouldn't be good Saturday evening) and while I enjoyed it, I was sure glad BCSP was frozen Sunday morning.
 
With all of that being said, I do agree that more people need to try these other great trails.  I'm really excited to get back out to GBC in particular and the next time I'm down and have multiple days, I plan on getting the fattie out there.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Traci on January 10, 2012, 08:24:45 AM
Ok, so for someone like me not knowing much about Gnawbone...fill me in.
Where is the trail head?
Is there a map, or is it marked?
What will I be getting myself into out there?
This would be a great thing for us to try this coming long weekend that we are going to have(even with the cold weather), but I want to be prepared. Since this is now my 2 year of riding, I am up for some different trails.
Any info would be great...:)
 
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: indytriple on January 10, 2012, 08:51:05 AM
I personally know someone that was going to ride Gnaw Bone last week when everyone on here said it was dry.  They made the mistake of calling Alice first (which is what you're technically supposed to do), and she said, "No way.  Too wet to ride."


Rob, you may want to get Alice on the same page with you and the locals.  I'm not sure she has a good idea of the conditions on her own property.


Also, a *GOOD* map of Gnaw Bone would be worth it's wait in gold.  That alone is probably stopping some people.  It's confusing as hell out there if you've never been there.  Not everyone thinks getting lost is fun.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Shark on January 10, 2012, 09:00:47 AM
Try here:
 http://www.browncountymountainbiking.com/gnawbone.html


Ok, so for someone like me not knowing much about Gnawbone...fill me in.
Where is the trail head?
Is there a map, or is it marked?
What will I be getting myself into out there?
This would be a great thing for us to try this coming long weekend that we are going to have(even with the cold weather), but I want to be prepared. Since this is now my 2 year of riding, I am up for some different trails.
Any info would be great...:)
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gnawbonelefty on January 10, 2012, 10:00:19 AM
I personally know someone that was going to ride Gnaw Bone last week when everyone on here said it was dry.  They made the mistake of calling Alice first (which is what you're technically supposed to do), and she said, "No way.  Too wet to ride."


Rob, you may want to get Alice on the same page with you and the locals.  I'm not sure she has a good idea of the conditions on her own property.


Also, a *GOOD* map of Gnaw Bone would be worth it's wait in gold.  That alone is probably stopping some people.  It's confusing as hell out there if you've never been there.  Not everyone thinks getting lost is fun.

Alice provides a decent map at checkin.

I've wanted to for a long time now lay out on a topo the trails at gnawbone and valley branch, and then abstract that into a readable map one can take with them.  In the mean the key to riding there,, is to know where you are in relation to Lake Road, and lake ridge/raspberry ridge.

If it's you first time,  ride out lake road from the camp, go up cemetery ridge to to raspberry ridge.  Once on raspberry take it back to lake ridge past the lookout cabin to  pine ridge.

Once you know this big loop, you'll know everything in between these two  pretty much connect the 2  double tracks,  in general  the  further outside of this loop the more strenuous the trail systems becomes, but almost every trail will take you back to this loop.  also you can have a great day of riding just exploring the trails on the inside of this loop.  On your first time, or first time in a long while this is what I recommend.  as long as you follow blue ribbons, you will eventually come out to somewhere on the loop described above and then from there getting back to the camp is easy.  In short head south to lake road and then follow it downstream.  this will get you back from anywhere out there.



Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gmcttr on January 10, 2012, 10:48:21 AM
We have been hiking the GBC trails this winter to get familiar with them. Alice's dog, Cookie, has gone with us most of the time and has been great at keeping us on trail when the leaf cover made them hard to find. Nothing better then a using a guide service.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: pigfarm on January 10, 2012, 11:29:43 AM
I personally know someone that was going to ride Gnaw Bone last week when everyone on here said it was dry.  They made the mistake of calling Alice first (which is what you're technically supposed to do), and she said, "No way.  Too wet to ride."


Rob, you may want to get Alice on the same page with you and the locals.  I'm not sure she has a good idea of the conditions on her own property.


Also, a *GOOD* map of Gnaw Bone would be worth it's wait in gold.  That alone is probably stopping some people.  It's confusing as hell out there if you've never been there.  Not everyone thinks getting lost is fun.

Alice provides a decent map at checkin.

I've wanted to for a long time now lay out on a topo the trails at gnawbone and valley branch, and then abstract that into a readable map one can take with them.  In the mean the key to riding there,, is to know where you are in relation to Lake Road, and lake ridge/raspberry ridge.

If it's you first time,  ride out lake road from the camp, go up cemetery ridge to to raspberry ridge.  Once on raspberry take it back to lake ridge past the lookout cabin to  pine ridge.

Once you know this big loop, you'll know everything in between these two  pretty much connect the 2  double tracks,  in general  the  further outside of this loop the more strenuous the trail systems becomes, but almost every trail will take you back to this loop.  also you can have a great day of riding just exploring the trails on the inside of this loop.  On your first time, or first time in a long while this is what I recommend.  as long as you follow blue ribbons, you will eventually come out to somewhere on the loop described above and then from there getting back to the camp is easy.  In short head south to lake road and then follow it downstream.  this will get you back from anywhere out there.

Thanks for the tips GBL.  Somebody ought to sticky that.  It's being printed out and put in my saddle bag along with the map.
 
PF
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: tony on January 11, 2012, 12:13:22 PM
I've wanted to for a long time now lay out on a topo the trails at gnawbone and valley branch, and then abstract that into a readable map one can take with them.  In the mean the key to riding there,, is to know where you are in relation to Lake Road, and lake ridge/raspberry ridge.


I've got a Garmin 305 that I'm not using.  Let me know if you want it for that project.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Butts on January 12, 2012, 01:33:58 PM
As someone who has asked this question recently, I don't feel comfortable trying a new location during my normal ride time (3:30-6) for fear that I may end up lost and in the dark (I have no lights either).


I would like to try these other locations, but I would feel better learning my way around on a Saturday morning when I have a lot of daylight to work with.


Until I have a chance to do that, I am forced to ask if BCSP is rideable, but trust me, it's not because that is the only trail I want to ride, it's just the trail I know right now.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gnawbonelefty on January 12, 2012, 01:54:48 PM
I've wanted to for a long time now lay out on a topo the trails at gnawbone and valley branch, and then abstract that into a readable map one can take with them.  In the mean the key to riding there,, is to know where you are in relation to Lake Road, and lake ridge/raspberry ridge.


I've got a Garmin 305 that I'm not using.  Let me know if you want it for that project.

I would take you up on that project,  a couple more months and I'll be back in good enough shape to ride it all in a day.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Shark on January 12, 2012, 05:13:17 PM
Wonder if there is an easy way to do it in multiple rides ? I have almost all of valley branch.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gnawbonelefty on January 12, 2012, 05:20:16 PM
I think if you have the kml files I've got some software to stitch them together.

.r
Title: Re:
Post by: gt ss on January 12, 2012, 07:18:14 PM
     I am curious about something too. Why do so many work themselves to a near ulcer worrying about things like some ruts on a MOUNTAIN BIKE trail when they have no control over it. I mean, the people that frequent this board are not likely to even want to ride on a muddy trail, let alone do it for fear of alienation from their peers.
     It's those that are new to the sport that don't know better and those who are just messing around out there that don't care. And why should they care. Aren't we riding all terrain bikes? We as riders can't expect to ride on a perfectly smooth and dry surface every time we venture into the woods, that's what paved rails to trails and roads are for.
     How is it places like Gnaw Bone, Valley Branch Retreat, Knobstone Trail, yadda, yadda, yadda, can get by without having all the puddles nicked and be great this time of year? I know " They don't get all the traffic and the leaves are covering the tread". These trails were built old school, up and down fall lines etc... and as many on this thread have said are still great this time of year.
     Tell me, what would happen if these rutted areas were left alone? Would they smooth out with tires eventually? Would they develop into a deep abyss? Would they get wider? If they get wider, what would happen? Would they eventually end up looking like a horse trail?( If that's the case, we definitely don't want that.)
     Don't misunderstand me, I have nicked a few puddles to help out the local trail. I just don't understand working up a lather over something like mud puddles when there are starving people without clothing and shelter.
    * IMO


Just when my karma was on an upward trend  :o
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Unfit Nitwit on January 12, 2012, 09:33:00 PM
gt ss

Maybe the BCSP trails are under a microscope by people who would love for us to lose access to the trails, among other reasons. I have talked more than once to people who want bikes off the trails there.
I will ride BCSP when there are mud puddles, and the trail is a bit splashy but firm.
More put off by those who remove rocks built into the trail rather than make a rogue bypass, or (as a stretch) possibly see if a bypass can be added by the trail builders.

Soil composition and the age of the trails may have something to do with conditions at different trails.
Popping the puddles so they drain is a step to making the trail open more of the time.
How the soil reacts to freeze/ thaw, I don't think anyone do much about. Aside from riding early, or later in the day.

If I recall, both Valley Branch and Gnaw Bone had rain wash ruts on some of the fall line parts of the trail.
Have not ridden either in about 6 years, but I am sure both had hills with ruts. As did Nebo Ridge (which also had horses on it). Valley branch had a deep rut (trench) from a motorcycle race they used to have on one hill.

Some sections could easily end up like a bad horse trail.
Town Run had a section go from single track to wide enough for a car due to people edging around a rutted puddle. It just kept getting wider.
Even experienced riders will tell you they are smart enough not to damage the trail in marginal conditions, as they "know to ride AROUND the puddles". I have heard it a few times when out doing trail work, and have read it here in the HMBA forums.

Ed



Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Randy Witte on January 13, 2012, 09:16:07 AM
Speaking of Gnaw Bone maps...here's a blast from the past...anyone else remember when they had the maps printed on cloth bandanas?  So you could take it out there, take it out over and over, sweat all over it, and not have it return to pulp on you.  I think maybe Fett had one.  And Freddie always had one when I rode out there with him.  I really have no idea the whole story on those...just reminiscing a little on a Friday morning.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Fett on January 13, 2012, 09:30:59 AM
I wish I had one. That would be cool although I don't get lost very often at Gnaw Bone anymore. I do, on occasion, have temporary navigational irregularities at Valley Branch though.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Patrick Weller on January 13, 2012, 09:42:46 PM
How about a mud park?  Or dedicate one trail to all-conditions riding.  Don't hit me. 
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Shark on January 13, 2012, 10:15:37 PM
How about a mud park?  Or dedicate one trail to all-conditions riding.  Don't hit me.

Go race cyclocross. Problem solved. ;D
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Fett on January 14, 2012, 09:12:53 AM
How about a mud park?  Or dedicate one trail to all-conditions riding.  Don't hit me.

You can go ride Redbird State Recreation Area. It is the offroad park down in Southern Indiana for motorcycles and ATVs. I believe bicycles are allowed and you can mud it up to your hearts content.  www.redbirdsra.com (http://www.redbirdsra.com)
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Patrick Weller on January 15, 2012, 09:39:33 AM
You can go ride Redbird State Recreation Area. It is the offroad park down in Southern Indiana for motorcycles and ATVs. I believe bicycles are allowed and you can mud it up to your hearts content.  www.redbirdsra.com (http://www.redbirdsra.com)

Thanks Fett!  I'll check that out. I'm no racer and would not fit in with the cross scene.  ::)   :-X
 
I've also heard folks say that Hickory Ridge and Nebo are better when BC is muddy.  I believe these trails are open to horses, and most are pulverized from hoof traffic already.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on January 15, 2012, 09:49:18 AM
While Nebo is technically open to horses, it doesn't get much horse traffic.  It is not well connected to other horse trails and hard to horse trailer at its parking lots.  So it does have a much better tread for mountain biking than the rest of Hickory.  So please try to help keep it that way and avoid it when it is too muddy.  Do to less traffic, it may at times be ok when BCSP is too soft. 

But the rest of Hickory is fair game.  Much of it is armored with gravel to support the horse traffic, and since horses use it rain or shine, mountain biking in muddy conditions isn't going to degrade the trails.

If the trails get too bad the gravel road in Hickory are another option, and they plenty challenging (climbing) and fun (descending).
Title: Re:
Post by: Shark on January 19, 2012, 06:02:35 PM
     I am curious about something too. Why do so many work themselves to a near ulcer worrying about things like some ruts on a MOUNTAIN BIKE trail when they have no control over it. I mean, the people that frequent this board are not likely to even want to ride on a muddy trail, let alone do it for fear of alienation from their peers.
     It's those that are new to the sport that don't know better and those who are just messing around out there that don't care. And why should they care. Aren't we riding all terrain bikes? We as riders can't expect to ride on a perfectly smooth and dry surface every time we venture into the woods, that's what paved rails to trails and roads are for.
     How is it places like Gnaw Bone, Valley Branch Retreat, Knobstone Trail, yadda, yadda, yadda, can get by without having all the puddles nicked and be great this time of year? I know " They don't get all the traffic and the leaves are covering the tread". These trails were built old school, up and down fall lines etc... and as many on this thread have said are still great this time of year.
     Tell me, what would happen if these rutted areas were left alone? Would they smooth out with tires eventually? Would they develop into a deep abyss? Would they get wider? If they get wider, what would happen? Would they eventually end up looking like a horse trail?( If that's the case, we definitely don't want that.)
     Don't misunderstand me, I have nicked a few puddles to help out the local trail. I just don't understand working up a lather over something like mud puddles when there are starving people without clothing and shelter.
    * IMO


Just when my karma was on an upward trend  :o


Yes we are riding "all terrain bikes" but that does not mean it's OK to mess up trails that HMBA members and other MTB'rs work so hard to build.


Think of it this way, compared to hikers & horse riders, we are the "new guys" on the block. It makes everyone look bad when there are bikes coming off State Park trails that have 2" of mud everywhere. It promotes the misinformation that bikes hurt the environment.

That just gives more reason for anti-bike folks to try & limit our access that HMBA/IMBA/local clubs has worked so hard to get us.

It is true, all the times that BCSP is too wet to ride, VBR & GBC have been fantastic. Many places have +4" of leaves & very few riders, trails stay solid.

PS...
karma usually goes up if you try to be helpful & nice.  ;)
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on January 19, 2012, 06:33:20 PM

Quote
  Tell me, what would happen if these rutted areas were left alone? Would they smooth out with tires eventually? Would they develop into a deep abyss? Would they get wider? If they get wider, what would happen? Would they eventually end up looking like a horse trail?( If that's the case, we definitely don't want that.)

(http://indytrekracer.smugmug.com/Sports/Town-Run-Post-Storm/DSC02273/304872143_2z64m-L.jpg)

Even a few ruts hold water.  That means that area will remain wet longer after a rain.  Then the next time it rains, and 99% of the trail is dry, that spot will be wet.  So Riders will rider because 99% of the trail is dry.  That will displace even more dirt in those low spots.  This makes them hold more water longer.  Because the ground is compacted, the water can't seep into the ground, so these spots can hold water for days. 

BCSP is well built and mostly bench cut, so the trails typically don't get made wider like what we used to see at Town Run.

(http://alexmtb.smugmug.com/Landscapes/TRTP/TRTPdamage03/175323527_ocqbN-L.jpg)

But what does happen is that that bottoms of grade reversals loss their ability to drain, leaving a muddy spot at the bottom of turns.  This ruins the flow of the trail, as there are too many slick turns to fully enjoy the flow. 

It may appear that the damage from riding in bad conditions doesn't leave lasting damage.  It's the regular maintenance we do that counters the trail damage.  If we stopped doing maintenance and everyone rode when ever they wanted, the trails would be come less and less fun to ride.

Sure, we have lots of new riders each year and only a small percentage reads the forum.  So its up to mountain bikers to spread the word and apply peer pressure.  Keeping the trails fun to ride is a balance between the volunteers we have vs. the damage done to the trails.  If the damage gets out of hand, our volunteers wouldn't be able to keep up. 

The less maintenance we have to do, means more time to build new trails!





Title: Re:
Post by: gt ss on January 19, 2012, 08:57:49 PM

PS...
karma usually goes up if you try to be helpful & nice.  ;)

Really? I re-read my post and didn't see anything unhelpful or mean.

I don't care about the Karma, I'm a presbyterian.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: TimBarnes on January 20, 2012, 10:18:09 AM
I dated Karma back in high school and yes, she can be a bitch sometimes.  That's why I try to build up credit with her by working on the trails.  I crash anyway...
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Patrick Weller on January 23, 2012, 01:16:55 PM
Thank you Paul.  That was what I was looking for.  I was surprised when I saw the horse sign at Nebo.  I treat that trail same as BC, I don't ride when BC is Yellow.  I'm getting an annual pass for the forest properties this year.  Probably should get ab EPIRB too...
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: billy on February 13, 2013, 01:55:44 PM
Remembered this discussion, so am adding onto it instead of creating new one as good information is included in this thread.


A couple friends are meeting from out of state before one gets transferred overseas this weekend.  We're hoping to be biking, but the "reds" are starting to concern me and my initial hope for nice warm weather has changed to hoping for nice cold weather (Saturday's predicted high right now is 29, reassuring).  We're staying at VBR but don't want to rut up their trails either.  So a couple of questions and opinions sought:
1.   I'm assuming conditions are improving (not considering freeze/thaw into the mix).  A lot of people suggested VBR and GB - do you think those areas might be ridable by weekends time?
2.  I also see Nebo/Hickory Ridge mentioned, especially "armor plated" regarding HR.  I've only biked Nebo, about 10 years ago (before BC trails).  Is this still considered a good option with current conditions?  I remember getting a trail pass at a small country store near (east of) Story.  Are there other places for trail passes?


Really hoping it doesn't turn into a paved riding weekend, but don't want to fudge anything up either.  Suggestions/opinons?
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Fett on February 13, 2013, 02:51:47 PM
I am riding VBR for my Wed night ride.  I will give an update on the conditions.  GnawBoneLefty (who is as local as it gets) thought it may be good since the abundance of leaf cover and little usage has insulated the trails a bit from the freeze/thaw cycles.

Also, this weekend is forecast to be colder (below freezing) so the trails may end up getting frozen (especially in the mornings) that is may make for good riding.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gnawbonelefty on February 13, 2013, 04:27:03 PM
I'll chime in,  Last Thursday I rode out there.  If you know your way around,  the less traveled trails have plenty of leaf cover and are not at all muddy.  It still felt like your riding on a mattress,  but not at all muddy.  Copperhead ridge Sunset and homestead on the other hand,  are likely to be muddier.  Still  I wouldn't let it stop you.  It's not Brown County state park,  but it will be fun, and you won't be doing the kind of damage you would at the park.

..rob
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: billy on February 13, 2013, 06:29:50 PM
Thanks for the local input.  I have not ridden VBR (GB a couple times).  And I know it's like predicting the lottery sometimes with freeze/thaw but do you think it likely (I'm up here in Champaign/Urbana) for Saturday morning?  Trying to scope it out as far as generally north facing, it looks to me like from Hesitation Point on north would be best bet if it'd happen?  Good to know that VBR would be likely, was planning on Nebo and/or Hickory (never rode Hickory, but used to ride the Shawnee a lot and am quite comfortable with the possibility of being as Davey C. said "never lost but momentarily confused for several weeks"...
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Fett on February 13, 2013, 10:29:31 PM
VBR was in great shape tonight. pretty leafy and at times the trail faded out for a bit. 2.5 hr ride, almost no mud on my bike. I am thinking about doing a Death March Recon Ride on Saturday, starting at Nebo and doing about 3 hrs.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Kirk Hilton on February 17, 2013, 08:58:57 AM
Jeff I think why BCSP gets more traffic then VB, Nebo or GC is the conveyance of the yearly pass and something else to do if you bring family members.  I think in all my years I have only ridden GC 4 times, the last with Gary and yourself in the snow a few years back. Why?   VB, I use to ride allot but after Gary allowed the motorcycles in I lost interest. I would rather ride Hickory for the mileage and challenge over anything even BCSP.  Lucky I have days off during the week so I do not have to put up with the horse traffic. The horses and gov have ruined Hickory by cutting the trail when trees are down, building mud bogs and dumping gravel down in trouble areas, turning the trail into a fire road.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: wabasso on February 18, 2013, 12:31:47 PM
I just want to add my 2cents on the main topic of this tread

indytriple said:
Quote
Also, a *GOOD* map of Gnaw Bone would be worth it's wait in gold.  That alone is probably stopping some people.  It's confusing as hell out there if you've never been there.  Not everyone thinks getting lost is fun.

I've looked at the map posted for GB & it's exactly that map that keeps me from riding there.  Getting lost & riding in circles all day isn't my idea of a good time.  Hoosier National is better mapped/marked.  In my opinion get a good map you will get the riders.  :)   
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: john7722 on February 18, 2013, 02:23:02 PM
Totally agree with Wabsso!
why don't some of you Regulars ! make a map of your ride & make it a downloadable GPX/KML. .Guaranteed! You will get more riders on those trails!
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: bikapelli1 on February 18, 2013, 10:44:39 PM
Totally agree with Wabsso!
why don't some of you Regulars ! make a map of your ride & make it a downloadable GPX/KML. .Guaranteed! You will get more riders on those trails!

Actually, I've been trying to do a bit of that.  Every time I go out there I collect GPS data.  I have a good chunk of both VBR and GB to a lesser extent.  The big issue I have is don't know of any good software to edit GPS data.  Any suggestions?

bikapelli
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gnawbonelefty on February 18, 2013, 11:03:49 PM
oh,  you tech heads.  One of the big reasons I mountain bike is to get away from technology.  to feel lost in the woods. 

A map of gnawbone might get more people there,  but I think Alice's map works quite well in a stylized nyc subway kind of way.

I have a bunch of xml parsing tools and a copy of ArcGIS10.1 send me data, i could mash something up


Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gmcttr on February 19, 2013, 08:22:41 AM
I know this won't appeal to a lot of you, but a great way to learn GC is to hike it. Many of the trails are faint due to lack of use and on a bike, it is difficult to spot the blue flagging. On foot, it is much easier to find your way around. And yes, getting bewildered (I've never been lost) can be lots of fun.

What I would really like to have is a topo map that has both GC and VBR trails.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Bentcrank on February 19, 2013, 08:54:24 AM
Totally agree with Wabsso!
why don't some of you Regulars ! make a map of your ride & make it a downloadable GPX/KML. .Guaranteed! You will get more riders on those trails!

Actually, I've been trying to do a bit of that.  Every time I go out there I collect GPS data.  I have a good chunk of both VBR and GB to a lesser extent.  The big issue I have is don't know of any good software to edit GPS data.  Any suggestions?

bikapelli

Just take those gps tracks and photoshop and make a good map
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Otter on February 19, 2013, 10:50:28 AM
oh,  you tech heads.  One of the big reasons I mountain bike is to get away from technology.  to feel lost in the woods. 

A map of gnawbone might get more people there,  but I think Alice's map works quite well in a stylized nyc subway kind of way.

I have a bunch of xml parsing tools and a copy of ArcGIS10.1 send me data, i could mash something up

I'm going to agree with GBL here.  I enjoy going out in the woods and getting that sense (although slight) of adventure of not knowing exactly where you're going.  It's something different and I enjoy it.
 
With that said, when riding GB I've never really gotten lost using the map.  We would always look at the map to start and get an idea of what trail we wanted to ride and head that way.  A lot of times we would just ride for an hour or so...find a intersection and see where we were on the map and move on. 
 
Then again, I'm the guy that refuses to put a computer on my MTB..for me MTB'ing is a way to get away from it all and enjoy the outdoors.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gnawbonelefty on February 19, 2013, 01:40:04 PM
There is no getting lost and GBC or Valley Branch,  you are surrounded by 3 roads,  the furthest you ever are from one is about 2-3 miles.  ride until you are ready to leave and then look at a map.

Honestly since the park has exploded in popularity,  I like that usage is sparse there, especially on fall weekends.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Mahk on February 19, 2013, 01:48:23 PM
I live in Bloomington but am new to mtb'ing--where are the Gnawbone trails?  If Gnawbone = GB, is GC a typo for GB or someplace different??  What and where is VB, VBR, GC?  Thanks!
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gnawbonelefty on February 19, 2013, 02:56:44 PM
I live in Bloomington but am new to mtb'ing--where are the Gnawbone trails?  If Gnawbone = GB, is GC a typo for GB or someplace different??  What and where is VB, VBR, GC?  Thanks!

Both are just a few miles east of the brown county state park.

gnawbone = http://www.indycyclespecialist.com/gnawbone.htm (http://www.indycyclespecialist.com/gnawbone.htm)

Valley Branch = http://explorebrowncounty.com/images/maps/2012%20bike%20trail%20map.pdf (http://explorebrowncounty.com/images/maps/2012%20bike%20trail%20map.pdf)

A source of confusion is neither map is to scale,  but raspberry ridge on the gnawbonecamp map is the same trail as copperhead on the valley branch map.  the two intertwine,  but due to landowner disputes,  riding both place at the same time is frowned upon.  Also at valley branch,  trails tend to wander and fade awy from time to time.  the do a good job of signing colored loops,  so you can just follow those ..
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: MikeVK on February 19, 2013, 03:51:43 PM
  If Gnawbone = GB, is GC a typo for GB or someplace different??  What and where is VB, VBR, GC?  Thanks!


If I'm not mistaken (its been a few years since I've ridden either), GB, GBC, and GC all refer to Gnawbone Camp depending on how the poster decided to abbreviate.  VB and VBR both refer to Valley Branch Retreat, again depending on poster's preference.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: bikapelli1 on February 19, 2013, 06:11:40 PM
If I'm not mistaken (its been a few years since I've ridden either), GB, GBC, and GC all refer to Gnawbone Camp depending on how the poster decided to abbreviate.  VB and VBR both refer to Valley Branch Retreat, again depending on poster's preference.

It gets more complicated as the owner of Valley Branch Retreat is trying to rebrand it as eXplore Brown County (http://www.explorebrowncounty.com/).  Gary (the owner) has added zip lines in addition to paintball and mtb'ing, as well as a new outdoor music venue.  On the plus side, he is making some new trails. 
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: billy on February 19, 2013, 10:40:08 PM
From the standpoint of a 'tourist' who is coming there as a destination area, having a decent idea of the outlay of an area is a big consideration.  Rode VBR this weekend for first time, and it was a big help having map, whether to scale or not, and signage.  You may know that 135 or VB road is right over the tree line, but it is not obvious to a first timer/non-local rider out there.  I realize it's nice to have trails to yourself, but the flip side of the coin is that a good chunk of why the trail areas exist is because of the amount of people that visit/ride to make it feasible. 
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Mahk on February 20, 2013, 07:45:02 AM
Thanks for the replies.  What about that hill that used to be a ski area?  Is anything being done with that now?  Can't remember the name of it.....
I'm also interested in doing some trail maintenance/building, but haven't seen any notices about it yet this winter. 
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gnawbonelefty on February 20, 2013, 08:49:36 AM
Thanks for the replies.  What about that hill that used to be a ski area?  Is anything being done with that now?  Can't remember the name of it.....
I'm also interested in doing some trail maintenance/building, but haven't seen any notices about it yet this winter.

http://schoonervalleyvillage.com/wp/ (http://schoonervalleyvillage.com/wp/)

new urbanism,  if you believe that,  I'll sell you my share of the brooklyn bridge real cheap.

Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: David Kuehnen on February 20, 2013, 09:49:39 AM
Thanks for the replies.  What about that hill that used to be a ski area?  Is anything being done with that now?  Can't remember the name of it.....
I'm also interested in doing some trail maintenance/building, but haven't seen any notices about it yet this winter.

http://schoonervalleyvillage.com/wp/ (http://schoonervalleyvillage.com/wp/)

new urbanism,  if you believe that,  I'll sell you my share of the brooklyn bridge real cheap.
looks better than random development.


Also, you cannot legally sell shares of the Brooklyn Bridge as I own it outright...got a great deal on it.



Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Bentcrank on February 20, 2013, 10:28:09 AM
I was thinking that the neighborhood looked too flat for that area until I saw the snowflex section
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: pigfarm on February 20, 2013, 12:04:05 PM
Thanks for the replies.  What about that hill that used to be a ski area?  Is anything being done with that now?  Can't remember the name of it.....
I'm also interested in doing some trail maintenance/building, but haven't seen any notices about it yet this winter.

http://schoonervalleyvillage.com/wp/ (http://schoonervalleyvillage.com/wp/)

new urbanism,  if you believe that,  I'll sell you my share of the brooklyn bridge real cheap.
GBL, you're just jealous that your neignborhood doesn't have a vision statement.   ;)
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: edf on February 20, 2013, 12:35:24 PM
The concept art for that development reminds me of the fake town in The Truman Show. So is this thing really happening? Any construction started?
 
And to keep the post on topic, I have always enjoyed riding Nebo Ridge. Just the right amount of solitude. First time I ever rode it I ran into two guys who parked their truck along Berry Ridge Rd and jumped on the trail with a pair of Wal-Mart bikes. Quite drunk but still friendly. I'm assuming they surivived as I didn't see the truck on the return.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gnawbonelefty on February 20, 2013, 01:16:16 PM
The concept art for that development reminds me of the fake town in The Truman Show. So is this thing really happening? Any construction started?
 
And to keep the post on topic, I have always enjoyed riding Nebo Ridge. Just the right amount of solitude. First time I ever rode it I ran into two guys who parked their truck along Berry Ridge Rd and jumped on the trail with a pair of Wal-Mart bikes. Quite drunk but still friendly. I'm assuming they surivived as I didn't see the truck on the return.

For now ski world sits empty.  If the plan gets off of the ground it could  connect up someday to the brown county  mountain bike trail system.  When it does,  that trail will probably get all hoofed out by the developers riding unicorns on that trail.  I like the idea, I remain unconvinced of the business case.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: billy on February 20, 2013, 04:02:05 PM
Ski World, where nothing can go wrong, go wrong, go wrong...


if you don't recognize that movie tag line I dug from WAY back, sorry for the non sequitur...
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: David Kuehnen on February 20, 2013, 04:22:17 PM
Not that obscure......


(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02065/1973-westworld_2065391i.jpg)
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gt ss on February 20, 2013, 04:58:36 PM
I never skied @ Ski World but I did @ Nashville Alps ;)

To keep this post legit; I have ridden GBC and VBR but that was before BCSP and VSP. GBC and VBR were the sh** back then and I'm sure they are just about the same. That kind of riding doesn't exist in the state parks and I, for one, miss it. The adventure of not know EXACTLY where you are at all times is exhilarating and un nerving at the same time. I have got to make it a point to get back there and heck, both of those places are closer than BCSP and VSP!

PS. the maps were worse back then but still suitable IMO.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on February 20, 2013, 07:12:34 PM
I have ridden GBC and VBR but that was before BCSP and VSP. GBC and VBR were the sh** back then and I'm sure they are just about the same. That kind of riding doesn't exist in the state parks and I, for one, miss it.

So this is the part I can't figure out.  Seems like lots of folks like to bash IMBA style trails. But then they pass over old school trails to ride the IMBA spec trails.  When riders complain that we cut out too many trees, the trails aren't steep enough, it's too crowded, too many beginner trails, etc... I wonder why they don't ride at VBR or Gnawbone, or Hickory. 



Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Fett on February 20, 2013, 07:43:58 PM
I have ridden GBC and VBR but that was before BCSP and VSP. GBC and VBR were the sh** back then and I'm sure they are just about the same. That kind of riding doesn't exist in the state parks and I, for one, miss it.

So this is the part I can't figure out.  Seems like lots of folks like to bash IMBA style trails. But then they pass over old school trails to ride the IMBA spec trails.  When riders complain that we cut out too many trees, the trails aren't steep enough, it's too crowded, too many beginner trails, etc... I wonder why they don't ride at VBR or Gnawbone, or Hickory.
Probably becqause it is a different kind of riding and can be difficult. Also it takes time to learn your way around. Unless you are lucky and live close by, people probably don't get to ride BCSP often enough to look for a change of pace. And BCSP is awesome..
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gt ss on February 20, 2013, 07:45:23 PM
I have ridden GBC and VBR but that was before BCSP and VSP. GBC and VBR were the sh** back then and I'm sure they are just about the same. That kind of riding doesn't exist in the state parks and I, for one, miss it.

So this is the part I can't figure out.  Seems like lots of folks like to bash IMBA style trails. But then they pass over old school trails to ride the IMBA spec trails.  When riders complain that we cut out too many trees, the trails aren't steep enough, it's too crowded, too many beginner trails, etc... I wonder why they don't ride at VBR or Gnawbone, or Hickory.

Oh I'm not bashing IMBA trails, I love to ride them and would every day if I could. Too many downed trees ruin flow, I like being able to ride all the hills on my SS, I don't mind seeing lots of other riders (as long as they are pleasant) and beginner trails are fun too. What I'm saying is, it's been far to long since I've been to those old school trails and I need to rekindle that romance.

Also, I plan to get out and help/learn how to build some IMBA spec trails @ SWW this year.

And yes, BSCP is awesome and deserves the EPIC status.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gmcttr on February 20, 2013, 11:59:07 PM
...So this is the part I can't figure out.  Seems like lots of folks like to bash IMBA style trails. But then they pass over old school trails to ride the IMBA spec trails.  When riders complain that we cut out too many trees, the trails aren't steep enough, it's too crowded, too many beginner trails, etc... I wonder why they don't ride at VBR or Gnawbone, or Hickory.

Probably the same reason they desire obstacles but ride around the smallest roots in the trail. I quit worrying about the "cheater lines" and get tickled at what riders go around on Walnut and Schooner Trace. ::)
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: gnawbonelefty on February 21, 2013, 09:23:28 AM
For me it is all about variety.  Honestly if you had only a couple of weekends a year to go to brown county, and ride any of the trails there,  I would say  go to the state park.  if you live locally and get down more often,  I can't understand why you'd never try VBR(eXploreBC) and or GnawboneCamp a couple times a month. 

If you are willing to ride with an old slow guy,  I'm always willing to show folks around either place.  I have probably over 1000 rides there.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: john7722 on February 21, 2013, 10:52:52 AM
""If you are willing to ride with an old slow guy,  I'm always willing to show folks around either place.  I have probably over 1000 rides there.""
I'm going to take you up on this, after Death March. ;)
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Bentcrank on February 21, 2013, 11:54:28 AM
Quote
If you are willing to ride with an old slow guy

Just remember, everything is relative.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Mahk on February 21, 2013, 11:15:03 PM
VSP ?
 
If you are willing to ride with an old slow guy,  I'm always willing to show folks around either place.  I have probably over 1000 rides there.

If you are willing to ride with an old slow guy,  I'd like to see either place.  I have probably over 10 rides.........
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: wwrunner2 on December 31, 2015, 01:04:44 PM
Im going to be training for a ultra trail run but have never ran at brown county park and wondered if  the boundaries of the park are easily marked if I would get off on the wrong trails somehow so I wouldn't get lost thanks.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Otter on December 31, 2015, 01:26:50 PM
If you're in BCSP, you aren't going to get lost.  All the MTB'ing trails connect and believe all the hiking trails do too.  Now, go out and run in Hoosier National and that's different game!  Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would give Hoosier some attention.  Great trails and you can get in all of the mileage you'll ever need and won't be conflicting much (if any) with any other users. 
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Willyjaybob on January 01, 2016, 01:44:52 AM
If you're in BCSP, you aren't going to get lost.  All the MTB'ing trails connect and believe all the hiking trails do too.  Now, go out and run in Hoosier National and that's different game!  Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would give Hoosier some attention.  Great trails and you can get in all of the mileage you'll ever need and won't be conflicting much (if any) with any other users.

*Except for hunters (this week is gun season so I'm guessing you may have some shooting in HNF).
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: lmartin72 on April 18, 2016, 12:05:54 PM
Try here:
 http://www.browncountymountainbiking.com/gnawbone.html (http://www.browncountymountainbiking.com/gnawbone.html)

I was looking for the info on GBC. Is the camp still open for riding? The link above seems to go nowhere now.
Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Unfit Nitwit on April 18, 2016, 06:19:23 PM
I was looking for the info on GBC. Is the camp still open for riding? The link above seems to go nowhere now.

Not sure, but it may close when a camp is in session. One of the folks who ride there often may chime in, but the phone number to call is on this page if it's not outdated  http://indytriple.tripod.com/gnawbone.html (http://indytriple.tripod.com/gnawbone.html)

Here it is listed under the Fantastic 4

Title: Re: I am curious about something
Post by: Raleighguy29 on April 18, 2016, 07:43:32 PM
I was looking for the info on GBC. Is the camp still open for riding? The link above seems to go nowhere now.
It's still open till camp starts up. Kind of hard to find your way around if your not use to it. But there is a group of us riding there Thursday night this week and the guy to ride there with will be leading us around. So feel free to join us