Hoosier Mountain Bike Association

HMBA Trail Information => Brown County State Park => Topic started by: Fett on August 28, 2015, 09:09:14 AM

Title: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: Fett on August 28, 2015, 09:09:14 AM
I had not been on Hesitation Point for a while and rode it last night. I am continually dumbfounded by woosification of the rock garden. People creating cheater lines all around it and even a complete trail that bypasses the whole thing. Rocks and logs have been moved to make cheater lines. I wish these same people would expend that kind of effort on productive trail work.

I spent a while closing them off and restoring the trail. PLEASE. If you cannot ride it, walk that section rather than create cheater lines. If you cannot help yourself, please stick to trails more appropriate to your skill level until you can ride it.
 
If you would like, PM me. I would be happy to go out with anyone and practice that section and help develop the ability to ride it.

Rant out.
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: allmountin on August 28, 2015, 09:23:35 AM
Preach! 
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: Raleighguy29 on August 28, 2015, 11:58:03 AM
Really??? What the hell!!


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Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: Willyjaybob on August 28, 2015, 02:04:46 PM
I had not been on Hesitation Point for a while and rode it last night. I am continually dumbfounded by woosification of the rock garden. People creating cheater lines all around it and even a complete trail that bypasses the whole thing. Rocks and logs have been moved to make cheater lines. I wish these same people would expend that kind of effort on productive trail work.

I spent a while closing them off and restoring the trail. PLEASE. If you cannot ride it, walk that section rather than create cheater lines. If you cannot help yourself, please stick to trails more appropriate to your skill level until you can ride it.
 
If you would like, PM me. I would be happy to go out with anyone and practice that section and help develop the ability to ride it.

Rant out.

I'm constantly running into folks out there (trails in general, not BCSP specifically) with 2k bikes riding with no helmets, riding off the trails, going the wrong direction, and so on. We all have, right? Personally, I think (generally) it's a rider education issue...


Has anyone ever brought up the idea to develop and include an attractive easy to read card that is handed out with each new bike purchase at Indy bike shops? It could have something like the 'The Top 5 Commandments of Trail Riding' (always check trail status, don't alter the trails, don't run over hikers, etc.) or whatever you want to call it with a link to HMBA, etc? It could be a great way to increase rider education which will eventually-in some cases, anyway-result in better stewardship and advocacy for the trails here in IN.

I see a lot of [legitimate] complaining on here about riders doing stupid stuff, and I feel frustrated too, but how are these new riders supposed to know if no one tells them and they don't know other experienced riders? Currently there is no 'on ramp' to the average Joe bike buyer when it comes to this. They see a commercial or video, buy a bike and off they go...
Thoughts? Paul and the HMBA Jedi Council-thoughts? Couldn't be all that expensive to do and I can't imagine our LBS wouldn't mind helping out...Maybe a part of the new DNR fees/include with a trail map when they roll into state parks?
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: djkouza on August 28, 2015, 05:01:46 PM


[/size]I'm constantly running into folks out there with 2k bikes riding with no helmets, riding off the trails, going the wrong direction, and so on. You have, too, right? Personally, I think (generally) it's a rider education issue...Has anyone ever brought up the idea to develop and include an attractive easy to read card that is handed out with each new bike purchase at Indy bike shops? It could have something like the 'The Top 5 Commandments of Trail Riding' (always check trail status, don't alter the trails, don't run over hikers, etc.) or whatever you want to call it with a link to HMBA, etc? It could be a great way to increase rider education which will eventually-in some cases, anyway-result in better stewardship and advocacy for the trails here in IN. I see a lot of complaining on here about riders doing stupid stuff, and I feel frustrated too, but how are these new riders supposed to know if no one tells them and they don't know other experienced riders? Currently there is no 'on ramp' to the average Joe bike buyer when it comes to this. They see a commercial or video, buy a bike and off they go... Thoughts? Paul and the HMBA Jedi Council-thoughts? Couldn't be all that expensive to do and I can't imagine our LBS would mind helping out...
While you have some good points, I guess it's just me but before I even thought about buying a bike I looked for forums and info on trails.  We've all seen from Trail Status that there are some people who just don't care and openly will say they know it is red, but ride anyway.  The question is how many people would actually read the "info card"?  This is where the State Park MTB fee could be useful.  Pay fee, you get your tag/sticker/whatever that allows you to ride and then you get an "info packet" on trail conservation and stewardship?  I'm not against the card on bike purchase though either. But I think it may be more costly than it sounds at first.
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: gmcttr on August 28, 2015, 05:30:22 PM

... going the wrong direction,...

There currently are no one way trails at BCSP so it's really hard to go the wrong direction.

...Pay fee, you get your tag/sticker/whatever that allows you to ride and then you get an "info packet" on trail conservation and stewardship?...

Best idea I've heard in a long time. It would probably only take a single sheet handout that HMBA could provide to IDNR if required. I would gladly donate a little extra each year to the cause if needed. Obviously there is no magic bullet, but this would at least place the info in EVERY riders hands that would ride in the park.
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: Ed Strobel on August 28, 2015, 08:26:07 PM
I have noticed the cheat lines in several other places throughout the trail system, too.
Last week was my first time on HP for a couple of months, and it is having a hard season. The cheat lines on HP alone are just sad.
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: Willyjaybob on August 28, 2015, 09:09:31 PM
There currently are no one way trails at BCSP so it's really hard to go the wrong direction.

Best idea I've heard in a long time. It would probably only take a single sheet handout that HMBA could provide to IDNR if required. I would gladly donate a little extra each year to the cause if needed. Obviously there is no magic bullet, but this would at least place the info in EVERY riders hands that would ride in the park.

This comment wasn't for BCSP specifically, btw.
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: Willyjaybob on August 28, 2015, 09:19:46 PM
While you have some good points, I guess it's just me but before I even thought about buying a bike I looked for forums and info on trails.  We've all seen from Trail Status that there are some people who just don't care and openly will say they know it is red, but ride anyway.  The question is how many people would actually read the "info card"?  This is where the State Park MTB fee could be useful.  Pay fee, you get your tag/sticker/whatever that allows you to ride and then you get an "info packet" on trail conservation and stewardship?  I'm not against the card on bike purchase though either. But I think it may be more costly than it sounds at first.

It's not just you, because it was me too, because I'm a geek that way; but I'm surprised at the number of riders I meet out there who know nothing about HMBA or these forums. While I evangelize as much as I can, clearly a card or some info when they get their bike could help. I meant to add that very idea to attach it to the trail map/DNR fees but my break at work was up and I had to post, but that is exactly where I was headed with this. Sure, some wouldn't read it just like some people do whatever they want no matter what, but I think that would be the 10%. I'm enough of an optimist to bet that most riders would go along with it if they were in the know.

As for cost, you can get 500 oversized cards on sites like Vistaprint for under $70. That said, there's probably someone on these forums has a hookup with someone that could help us out...
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: getsometrail on August 30, 2015, 09:59:55 PM
People who change the trail have no respect for the trail or public property.  Yes it belongs to all of us but anyone with common sense knows that there are people in charge of that property and making your own changes is basically vandalism.  Cheater lines are equally disrespectful and I think are not just caused by newbs who can't ride the trail features but more likely experienced riders that want a faster less technical ride.  I think they like the idea of riding fat tires and wide bars through the woods but really belong on skinny tires with drop bars.  More education will not help either one of the afore mentioned groups. 
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: Paul_Arlinghaus on August 30, 2015, 10:22:10 PM
The other issue with this is the low turn out on volunteer days.  Ed and Tad lead work sessions most Monday evenings, but few turn out to help.  If we had more volunteer support we could close off these rouge lines before they get ridden in.  How many riders use the trails with out being able to find time to give back to the trails? 
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: Willyjaybob on August 31, 2015, 12:35:51 PM
The other issue with this is the low turn out on volunteer days.  Ed and Tad lead work sessions most Monday evenings, but few turn out to help.  If we had more volunteer support we could close off these rouge lines before they get ridden in.  How many riders use the trails with out being able to find time to give back to the trails?


I'd love to help at some point, just waiting for the work-family schedule to play nice with the work nights. My contribution at this point is doing minor trail repair when I can while on rides, paying my dues, and spreading the HMBA word every chance I get!  :) 
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: Fmerritt on September 01, 2015, 12:49:46 PM
A lot of good constructive points.  I like the "top 5 commandments of trail riding" idea.  I had suggested a similar "hanging tag" for all mountain bike purchases at local bike shops for HMBA membership.  Would anyone posting on this topic be willing to lead a ride or education program?  To Paul's point, a lot of great info but we see very little organized participation from those suggestions.  I appreciate those that take the time to work, repair and politely educate our user group.  Open for suggestions and timeframe for implementation of said ideas. 
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: Shark on September 02, 2015, 10:24:18 PM
You guys need to start gluing the rocks together.....;)
Title: Re: Vandalism of the Hesitation Point Rock Garden
Post by: Ziggy on September 03, 2015, 12:47:54 AM
How about a kiosk or signs at the trailheads explaining the the "5 commandments of trail riding"... or a handout at the park entrance that the guards give to riders as hey pay to enter the parks.