Hoosier Mountain Bike Association

HMBA Trail Information => Brown County State Park => Topic started by: David Kuehnen on September 27, 2014, 05:04:24 PM

Title: Basic etiquette
Post by: David Kuehnen on September 27, 2014, 05:04:24 PM
Riders yield to hikers, runners and the rider who is climbing. No one is exempt from this rule.  If you think that you are exempt, you are wrong.  That is all. 
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: deanarammalamma on September 27, 2014, 05:22:03 PM
Testify, David!
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: john7722 on September 27, 2014, 08:09:51 PM
Last weekend was awful!!!  in terms of trail etiquette.  NO ONE!!! yielded when we were climbing. when I say NO ONE! I mean NO ONE!!!  A woman from Idaho and myself were climbing up the rockiest section of Walnut, when a group of 5 guys came blasting down. they did not give way and came within a hair of a head on as did the woman with another one of the riders in the group. they scolded US for not giving them the downhill right of way. This was just one of many encounters that weekend.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Raleighguy29 on September 27, 2014, 08:58:13 PM
I had that happen while back when I was climbing hp. Guy didn't yield and when he clipped my bar he yelled at me and then we had a colorful exchange.


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Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Mattntp on September 27, 2014, 10:19:20 PM
I was down today and had the same experience. It was pretty busy and there were more than a few people not yielding to climbers, it was very frustrating. I got clipped by a guy while climbing on green valley, didn't go down but we had some words. Some may not have known better, but there were others who definitely did.  >:(
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Ed Strobel on September 27, 2014, 10:44:07 PM
I also have some that I have come on through as I move over some to share the trail. And they take the middle instead of moving to the opposite side. Now I assume they won't yield in any way so I take the center to uphill part of the trail when passing. If you are going to be a jerk and clip me, I am not the one going over the edge.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: allmountin on September 27, 2014, 11:48:20 PM
Over labor day, I was down at bcsp, and rode up from the bottom, and back down.  On the way back, I was on tired legs, really spinning out any inclines, and shredding the descents.  A pair of seasoned riders, who should know better, were inching up on the climbs, and I'd gap them a bit going down.  We did this for several cycles and were maybe a half mile from the parking area by the pavilion.  Ahead was a cute girl, climbing solo, in jean shorts, on a next.  A rare bird, and likely new to the sport.  I interrupt my shred, pull off, and offer her the trail.  She hesitates, points up trail, and says, "There are a bunch of people coming."

In fact, it was just these two clowns, blasting through past a yielding descender and a now stopped climber.  I apologized to her, though I was not in the wrong, and continued on my way.  Her smile and thanks brightened my day, but surely encounters like this can't be welcoming to newer riders. 

I passed another female rider 30 seconds later, yielding again.  Her response made it clear that those jackwagons had given her the same treatment. 

These guys were parked right by me.  They had their lady friends waiting to pick them up after shuttling to the top.  Clearly locals, and clearly had no regard for anyone's ride but their own.  Shameful. 
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: pigfarm on September 28, 2014, 08:55:30 AM
Over labor day, I was down at bcsp.
I think I see your problem......
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: allmountin on September 28, 2014, 09:43:08 AM
It really wasn't bad though.  A couple passes per loop maybe. 
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Hocky on September 28, 2014, 01:24:21 PM
Yielding to climbers is bad every time I am there. If they don't yield, I just stand in front of them and let them hit me or walk their bike uncomfortably around me. And as sad as it is, 3/4th of the time these are the guys in shop jerseys.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: gmcttr on September 28, 2014, 03:49:33 PM
... And as sad as it is, 3/4th of the time these are the guys in shop jerseys.

My impression is that this type of rider thinks they have the skill to ride around others without anyone stopping. What they don't seem to understand, or more likely don't care about, is that many of the other riders aren't at all comfortable with this. A$$ hats is all they are.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Allen Edwards on September 28, 2014, 05:40:14 PM
A$$ hats, indeed.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: deanarammalamma on September 29, 2014, 06:31:32 AM
As mountain biking gets more popular, we are seeing a larger sample of our general society on the trails. With that comes folks who are new (and just don't know the rules/etiquette), but also those who just don't give a rat's red a$$ about anyone other than themselves. I'm afraid it's just the natural outcome of this growing sport.  All we can do is try to continue to be good ambassadors for the sport, and try to continue to educate. The fact is though, there will always be jerks on the trail. It's best not the let them ruin our day (or at least try not to).
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Seth Hildebrand on September 29, 2014, 09:24:00 AM
A few things come to mind for me:
 
1) I've been riding for a number of years and I'm not even clear on what the "rules" are. Perhaps someone could point us toward a site, or post a very concise example of that here or on the home page of this site.

2) How about making the trail direction one-way at all parks going forward. With the growing traffic it sounds like it might be time to consider that now.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: David Kuehnen on September 29, 2014, 09:45:08 AM
IMBA's list https://www.imba.com/about/rules-trail (https://www.imba.com/about/rules-trail) which is what I have seen pretty much everywhere I have ridden.   Pretty much all common sense rules.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: getsometrail on September 29, 2014, 10:44:57 AM
2) How about making the trail direction one-way at all parks going forward. With the growing traffic it sounds like it might be time to consider that now.

One way = half as many trails to ride.  The trails in BCSP were designed to be ridden both ways and provide a unique experience ridden in each direction.  Why limit the direction when there really are only a handful of days in which the traffic is as heavy as it was last Saturday.  Think about it a perfect late September weekend day in which the trails were 100% dry and ride-able.  If you really want to get out there and hammer out a bunch of fast miles without having to be annoyed by other more leisurely trail users then think about when you choose to ride.  Early or late in the day significantly reduces traffic, or if your schedule allows ride the weekdays.   Other wise just suck it up and be nice.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Shark on September 29, 2014, 12:53:59 PM
... And as sad as it is, 3/4th of the time these are the guys in shop jerseys.

My impression is that this type of rider thinks they have the skill to ride around others without anyone stopping. What they don't seem to understand, or more likely don't care about, is that many of the other riders aren't at all comfortable with this.

Exactly.
I've seen it too many times.
For many new riders, just being out on the singletrack is a big experience....then you guy these riders that can't take 10 seconds out of their day to stop and pass/yield safely. It's pretty sad really.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Dan71 on September 29, 2014, 06:18:39 PM
... And as sad as it is, 3/4th of the time these are the guys in shop jerseys.

My impression is that this type of rider thinks they have the skill to ride around others without anyone stopping. What they don't seem to understand, or more likely don't care about, is that many of the other riders aren't at all comfortable with this.

Exactly.
I've seen it too many times.
For many new riders, just being out on the singletrack is a big experience....then you guy these riders that can't take 10 seconds out of their day to stop and pass/yield safely. It's pretty sad really.




Sums up why my 13 year old son and wife do not like riding on the trails with me.  Every time I invite them they say we just get in the way of the other riders.  My response is we ride nort tower and green valley beginners are expected you will be ok, then some goof proves me wrong.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: mdbhound25 on September 29, 2014, 07:03:06 PM
I think I literally ran into the same 5 guys climbing out Green Valley toward Aynes. It was Saturday around 11am.  The first flew by and the second ran into me causing me to endo. I completely lost it on them, it was as close to blows as I've been in a long time.  I wouldn't let them pass.  They finally admitted they were wrong and said they didn't see me even though the trail is wide open there.


Saturday, I had several others stop while descending as did I.  The fact is that from my experience, the riders that are less likely to stop and follow trail rules are ones that think they are on some local no big deal race team as opposed to the equally fast guys riding because they like riding. 


Mike
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: mdbhound25 on September 29, 2014, 07:17:06 PM
Sorry for posting again but I completely disagree with the opinion that new riders are the ones who are the offenders.  Of course not always, but way more often than not, it's riders with shop jerseys.  I love to ride fast (and passing 'team' riders whenever possible  ;) ) but always try to be conscious of other riders, engage them and follow the trail rules especially when descending. Due to sight angles, sometimes a mistake can be made but the overt disregard for other riders seems to be heavily weighted to those who think they are some sort of semi pro rider.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: mdbhound25 on September 29, 2014, 07:18:13 PM
Sunday 11am
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Raleighguy29 on September 30, 2014, 06:17:55 AM
I know for me I've ridden bcsp enough that I know where the blind corners are on the decents.  So when I get close to those places I back off just in case. When I do run up on a climber unexpectedly I immediate appoligoze for my mistake. And try to move out of their way so they can keep moving. 


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Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Fett on September 30, 2014, 08:42:53 AM
Being a local BCSP rider who most often wears a shop jersey, I would publicly call out the name of the shop (even if it my own shop) as the most effective way to facilitate change in the behavior.  No shop owner wants to get a bad name and a talk to their riders from them or teammates is more likely to have a bigger impact.   When you advertise for a shop by wearing their jersey, there is a certain expectation of conduct.
Of course, most often, anyone can go out and buy a shops jersey, but calling the shop out is a positive thing in my mind. I say this knowing that my shop is probably the most common jersey out at BCSP, so I am hoping it is not us  ;D
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Syt on September 30, 2014, 10:11:05 AM
I consider cutting my speed to barely above walking pace and moving as far to the side as possible 'yielding'. Most of my encounters have been the opposite of what's discussed here, ie: the climber pulls off and stops. This leads me to believe they don't consider my actions  'yielding'. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Fett on September 30, 2014, 10:32:47 AM
Syt, Most often my yielding is exactly as you describe, slowing down to almost walking pace and getting over as far as possible, giving clear instruction of my intent. Now, if the trail is so narrow that parties cannot pass cleanly, I get off and walk.
You are yielding properly. Yielding does not require a dismount if parties can pass safely.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Hocky on September 30, 2014, 10:33:55 AM
I consider cutting my speed to barely above walking pace and moving as far to the side as possible 'yielding'. Most of my encounters have been the opposite of what's discussed here, ie: the climber pulls off and stops. This leads me to believe they don't consider my actions  'yielding'. Thoughts?

I think that if the climber is already pulled off before I get there, I slow down and go around.  A lot of those are people that are taking a break.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: mdbhound25 on September 30, 2014, 10:50:40 AM
Agreed that etiquette depends on the situation.  I always slow down when approaching climbers and, if they are stopped, I roll by but always thank them and wish them a good ride.  When climbing, I always give room if available to descenders but admittedly do not like to stop. 


If the riders are skilled enough to bomb down the trail, they should be skilled enough to ride the edge of it.  Despite earlier posts, my experience has been that most riders are great and friendly regardless of their skill level or what they wear. 
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Kirk Hilton on September 30, 2014, 07:02:09 PM
Why ride the same old places?  Try riding some other places less frequented by most people.  There are plenty of them.  But bad etiquette is bad etiquette.
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Raleighguy29 on October 01, 2014, 05:44:58 AM

Why ride the same old places?  Try riding some other places less frequented by most people.  There are plenty of them.  But bad etiquette is bad etiquette.
you make a good point. I've never had this problem when I've been to gnaw bone camp vbr versailes or wapahani


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Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: mbeaver on October 02, 2014, 11:57:28 PM
Why ride the same old places?  Try riding some other places less frequented by most people.  There are plenty of them.  But bad etiquette is bad etiquette.




I agree, I don't ride BCSP on weekends.  To me it gets to busy.  I ride at places like French Lick, or Muscatatuck. 
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Shark on October 03, 2014, 12:56:20 AM
Same here, I don't ride brown county on the weekend anymore either ;)
Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: mdbhound25 on October 03, 2014, 09:15:07 AM

Why ride the same old places?  Try riding some other places less frequented by most people.  There are plenty of them.  But bad etiquette is bad etiquette.
you make a good point. I've never had this problem when I've been to gnaw bone camp vbr versailes or wapahani

Great point, I haven't ridden Gnaw Bone or Nebo in years except at Breakdown.  Challenge is that Brown County is awesome and hard to get away from work for a day of riding during the week.  Wishing FL was closer.  Point taken though..

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Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: David Kuehnen on October 03, 2014, 10:56:37 AM
To complete my thought, we as HMBA members need to always try to educate other users on the basics rules.  As discussed, there may be some people who feel that they always have the right-of-way, but there may be more who just don't know the rules.


We we are on two-way trails, we need to set a good example.  When you ARE descending and you see someone coming up, stop well in advance and call out to them to climb through to let them know that the have the right-of-way.  If HMBA members adopt this policy, it hopefully will spread to other users.



Title: Re: Basic etiquette
Post by: Webby on October 04, 2014, 12:08:37 PM
Good advice Dave.
I try to educate others at any given chance. ( in a nice way that is ) I've known a few ppl that have been riding for some time now and when I tell them the UPHILL rider gets the right-of-way. I get this puzzled look. Then I explain it to them and they are like, OH,, DUH !!  and say they've never looked at it that way before. Guess they've never taken the time to read the rules posted either.  :-\   But,,,  when I started riding for the fist time. My friend who invited me out for a ride,,, well, he didn't know this either. BUT, he does now ! I informed him !!  ;) lol